This episode explores how black-and-white and color influence the way we experience film and photography, from the artistic choices of early cinema to the emotional impact of modern visual storytelling. Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin examine the psychology of color, the timeless power of monochrome, and the evolving role of digital manipulation in shaping what we see.
How do black and white and color influence the way we perceive images? In this episode, Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin examine the role of black-and-white and color in film, photography, and visual storytelling. The conversation moves through history, from silent films to modern cinema, touching on the technological and artistic decisions that shape how we experience visuals.
The Psychology of Color in Film
Ciappelli shares insights from the Academy Museum’s Color Emotion: Chromatic Exploration of Cinema exhibit, which explores how filmmakers use color to create mood and evoke emotion. The discussion highlights the transition from black-and-white films to color and how directors leverage lighting, camera technology, and costume choices to enhance storytelling. The Wizard of Oz, a defining moment in cinematic history, is discussed as a key example—the shift from black-and-white Kansas to the Technicolor world of Oz wasn’t just a technical innovation but an intentional artistic decision.
Black-and-White as an Artistic Choice
Martin, who also has a background in photography, reflects on how black-and-white imagery forces viewers to focus on different elements—contrast, shadows, and composition—rather than being distracted by color. He notes that black-and-white isn’t just about nostalgia; it’s often used to create a sense of timelessness or emphasize emotional depth. The conversation extends to legendary photographer Ansel Adams, whose landscapes showcase how black-and-white photography can transform light and texture into a powerful visual experience.
Photography and the Role of Digital Manipulation
The episode also touches on how digital photography has changed the creative process. The ability to capture dozens of images in seconds and manipulate them in post-production raises questions about authenticity. Is there more artistic value in an image that is captured perfectly in the moment, or is post-processing just another tool in the creative toolbox?
This thought-provoking conversation connects film, photography, and personal experience, inviting listeners to reconsider how they engage with visual storytelling.
Tune in to hear more about the relationship between black, white, and color in the way we see the world.
Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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Marco Ciappelli: [00:00:00] Sean . What, what year is that? I don't know, man. What are, what are we looking at?
Sean Martin: You know,
Marco Ciappelli: London 1,817. The,
Sean Martin: I, I didn't pack the, uh, cowboy hat for the, for the trip back east.
Marco Ciappelli: Is that how you go around in New York when you're in momentum somewhere?
Sean Martin: That's how I roll.
Marco Ciappelli: You have a cane too?
Sean Martin: I do have a cane.
Marco Ciappelli: Nice, nice. I like, I like the look. I like the look. I'm like, I'm supporting L. A. here and prevent the wildfires.
Sean Martin: There you go. Prevent wildfires.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. With Smokey.
Sean Martin: That's your favorite PSA, I think.
Marco Ciappelli: It is very, very effective. I wish we could do, uh, public service announcement that good [00:01:00] nowadays and, uh, yeah, that, that went in the history.
Still working, by the way. So there is a reason
Sean Martin: because it's curious to know how many times they've updated it.
Marco Ciappelli: I think they did quite a bit. Actually, when I was driving back there, is
Sean Martin: there a wrapping Smokey the bear now?
Marco Ciappelli: I don't know that. No, probably not. But, but I can tell you when I was driving back from Atlanta, uh, we went through a few, uh, park, national park, and Utah, um, arches.
And to go there, uh, we in Zion, we need to go to the Red Canyon. And, and, and that in the Red Canyon, there was a lot of merchandise about Smokey. I even took a picture with Smokey, like real size, Statue of Smoky the Bear. Yeah. So, I met Smoky. Go for it.
Sean Martin: You met Smoky.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, and it was the classic, you know, back in the [00:02:00] days.
That's cool. And then the, the way it looks now and uh, people love it. Kids and older people and it's, it's been making history in our culture.
Sean Martin: It has. It has.
Marco Ciappelli: You know what else make um, history in our culture?
Sean Martin: Um, I don't know, something food wise? No. I like food.
Marco Ciappelli: I know you always think food. I was thinking more like movies.
Sean Martin: Ah, that's true. And they start, uh, they start in black and white, didn't they?
Marco Ciappelli: I see what you did there. I see, I see. Yes. It did start in black and white. It started even without, without sound. You know, it was, nobody was talking. Right. It was silent. Music driven. And not only that, well, remember that it wasn't even the music in the film earlier.
There would be somebody sitting in the theater on a, some kind of an instrument, I guess, an [00:03:00] organ, a piano, or whatever it was, and they will play music according to what was shown on video. And That's pretty cool.
Sean Martin: It is pretty cool. I think, uh, I'm certain I've told you about it. We may have even briefly talked about it on an episode before.
But in Malibu, I went to an evening at somebody's house. Somebody famous. I'm not going to mention the name, but
Marco Ciappelli: Did you sneak in or you were invited? I was
Sean Martin: invited to this one. And, uh, there are sneaking in versions of different stories, but this one was a proper invite. And it was a silent film. And in the In the living room were a group of about, probably 30, 40 people, maybe maximum, sat around watching the silent film with music performed by a live orchestra.
Marco Ciappelli: You never told me that. I don't know. Or maybe you did and forgot.
Sean Martin: No, I'm telling you [00:04:00] now. And it was quite cool, man. It was really something special.
Marco Ciappelli: This was actually an orchestra.
Sean Martin: It wasn't just Small orchestra. Small orchestra. Playing, playing a soundtrack to the silent film.
Marco Ciappelli: Love it. You know, soundtrack is actually one of the things I like to listen to when I'm working.
It's a little bit, sometimes it's classic, sometimes it's electronic, sometimes it's, I like musicals. So that's another one that I enjoy listening, but I get distracted. Because then I feel like I want to sing it and live in a musical and that's not you get up and sing it make me lose nothing out
Sean Martin: scaring the dogs with the song.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, sometimes I wish that life was a musical. I think there'd been a few episode on some TV show that they did.
Sean Martin: You love La La Land, right? That was life. Life is a musical. If I'm not mistaken.
Marco Ciappelli: I love the Phantom of the Opera. I love cats. I love West Side Story. I've seen a bunch of those. [00:05:00] You know where?
In LA, and it's not Broadway, but it was a Broadway production. So, you know, we'll play both the East and the West Coast.
Sean Martin: Yeah, we got both, Rowan. That's true.
Marco Ciappelli: But you know what we got here?
Sean Martin: What's that?
Marco Ciappelli: Well, you know, because you're often in LA, but we have the Academy Museum, and that
Sean Martin: I've not been yet.
Marco Ciappelli: It's pretty cool.
I was there a couple of times. The last time was actually this past weekend. We had some friend visiting and uh, there is this, um, exhibition there, um, where, you know, they change, they change a few things here and there. It's often about costumes, but, um, they had different room and this one, which goes October 6th to July 13th, and I'm not paid, um, By, um, by, by the academy.
Not a paid. No, still cool. Unfortunately not, but I'm hoping I'll get an interview [00:06:00] with, uh, with the people that are managing the event and exhibition there. It's this one in particular is color emotion, chromatic exploration of cinema. And what is really cool about that is. You are in black and white.
Sorry, I mirrored that. You're in black and white. I'm in color because this is all about the experience and the different psychological approach, the way that you film, lighting, direct, when you film black and white or in color. And in particular, this is the The going from, um, silent movies to actually that were often, well, all of them in black and white and then you move into color and there is these old cameras.
There's all these different technologies. Some lasted, some didn't last and you can see how the color was applied, how they were actually technologically speaking, how they were filming [00:07:00] and then kind of like the study of colors and how You know, director and filmmaker, they, they use color too. Provoke emotions and, and enhance the experience.
So for someone that loves that kind of stuff, I was pretty, pretty blown away.
Sean Martin: That's cool.
Marco Ciappelli: Super cool.
Sean Martin: And Technicolor is there in Camarillo. Right. I think were they part of inventing color film or something? I'm not mistaken.
Marco Ciappelli: I don't know.
Sean Martin: I don't know. But any, the, um, interesting thing, and we, I don't know where we're going to go with this topic and conversation, but I mean.
We started black and white in film and photography for that matter, right? And then moved to color. And then I think as a general rule, maybe I'm oversimplifying here, but when new stuff, current modern stuff is done in black and white, a lot of times it's done to project a [00:08:00] time of the past. But I often feel that because I shoot photography as well, I think I often feel that the black and white or the monochrome.
Not just brings us back in time, but it could also present a different view, right? It gets you to focus on different things like shadows and maybe what's around the subject, or maybe the expression on the subject's face, where another, if it's in color, you might focus on the color of the shirt or something like that.
So I don't know. It's, uh, it's an interesting thing for me to think about black and white and color.
Marco Ciappelli: There is, yeah, there is an art, I think, in that in certain cases, because there was no option. Another case nowadays could be an option. I mean, I went to see still in L. A. a while back, um, uh, an exhibition about Ansel Adams.
Talking about incredible lighting, black and white photography and it, it just,
Sean Martin: and [00:09:00] landscapes with my favorite. Yeah. Landscape.
Marco Ciappelli: I mean, it just blows you away. And it's, it's just black and white. I mean, I love black and white. It's really, really cool. I have some memories about black and white and I'm going to tell you, I'm going to share soon when we talk more about photography, but what's interesting about.
This old progress here in going from black and white to color throughout this exhibition is that There is costumes as well. So for example, there is one of the most famous color thing in the movie history.
Sean Martin: Was it filmed in black and white and then colored? Colorized?
Marco Ciappelli: Well, that's how they used to do it before.
There was people colorizing each single frame like they used to do with the cartoons in the Disney production. Or was it the
Sean Martin: one that started in black and white and then There you go. Then they shifted and filmed in color.
Marco Ciappelli: You get in there, you get in there, you listen to Pink [00:10:00] Floyd anytime watching The Wizard of Oz.
Yes. And, uh, and you get to the museum and one of the last thing when you talk about costume, like the green of the Joker, um, and, and the way that it applies the light or the study of certain other color, like, uh, pink and, uh, and yellow when there is a, a, a portrait of a, of a queen, Queen Elizabeth, I believe.
And then there are many others, even the jacket from the shining from Jack Nicholson, um, in that movie. But that's. The sleepers from Dorothy and the funny story is that they are red, but originally in the book, they were silver. They turned red because they wanted to use the color as much as they wanted.
So the red on the yellow brick road. I mean, that movie was celebration of Yeah. And it's just [00:11:00] amazing. Everything is so shiny the moment that Toto, we're not in Kansas anymore and, and it just blows, blows your mind. So you actually get to see that, that kind of stuff. That's cool. Again, talking about going from from black and white to to color.
Um, you know, we touched on Ansel Adams and I think we're not videographer, nor me, nor you, although we do watch movies, but we do have some fun with photography. You in particular,
Sean Martin: I think we both do, I think different in different ways, but we certainly both do.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. So do you ever do black and white?
Sean Martin: I have not shot black In black and white, but I find that some of the photos I capture work really well in black and white.
Marco Ciappelli: When? Is that like landscape, portraits?
Sean Martin: Yeah, sometimes landscape. The, it's, [00:12:00] it's really where, kind of to my point earlier, where there's one that I took of, I don't know which building it is here in Manhattan, but there's one I took that had a few, two or three cone, uh, like street cones. Sitting on the sidewalk.
Marco Ciappelli: Oh, I think I remember that.
Sean Martin: And then the building has a bunch of square openings. Some have glass, some don't. And one version of it had the cones they were yellow cones, not orange. One version had the cones in color. And then I turned it into and the rest of it kind of was in black and white. Just because that's the color of the building.
And you don't really see the sky. So, I turned it black and white. And it, it, Gives it a totally different feel and you you don't I mean it's in color your eyes draw to the cones
Marco Ciappelli: Mm hmm,
Sean Martin: and when it's not your eyes are free to [00:13:00] see the whole thing and So and in my post actually I have to look it up to see exactly what I said But I the basic gist of the question is what do you see when you look at this?
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah
Sean Martin: Some people see the cones, some people see the squares, some people see the angles, some people see inside the building, some people see the outside of the building, and because it's in black and white, you have, at least in my opinion in this particular shot, you have the opportunity to see more than what I would want you to see if I
Marco Ciappelli: So here's a good question.
Cause we, when we do the digital photography and then we put it in Photoshop or any other program, it's easy to play around with it. But I'm wonder if you had only black and white, what would your approach to that particular picture will be different? I think the answer is yes, because I [00:14:00] feel like if you just see him black and white through.
You know, through the eye of the camera, I think you see something different, like you said, you know, maybe you concentrate more on the lighting, maybe the shadow and instead in color, you go to the bright object that may be the cone in the right place. I think it changed the way that you approach photography when.
Sean Martin: Yeah, yeah, lighting of the subject, lighting behind and around the subject. You might see it differently if you're seeing, seeing it in black and white and framing it that way. Maybe I would have framed the sky because maybe there's a cloud or sun shining on top of the building or something that black and white would have.
Would have made it seem different. I don't know if it's better or not, but yeah, it was interesting. You brought that up because I was thinking filming in black and white, do they costume and set the, [00:15:00] set the, uh, and dress the set I should say, um, for black and white, knowing that certain colors will provide in film than black and white will provide a different experience.
Marco Ciappelli: I'm viewed in
Sean Martin: black and white and it so that movie that transition from black and white to color. I was like, oh, geez, all those costumes, right? If they actually had the slippers and silver, because it would have looked great in black and white.
Marco Ciappelli: And
Sean Martin: then, now those slippers, they wanted to take advantage of the color, now they're red.
Does that mean a whole new set of slippers? That all the costumes have to change? I don't know if they talked about any of that in the display or not.
Marco Ciappelli: Well, there's nobody really walking you through that. There is like small tags that you can read when you look at a camera, or you look at a certain kind of, um, of technique to another.
And there is, for example, one, it's more about experience. But without too much explanation, then you [00:16:00] can go back and do your research. But that is more an immersive, in general, like you usually walk into a dark room with just the bright lighting goes on the costumes. The right lighting goes on to certain part of the exhibition.
There is an area that we did talk about the use of the neon lights that sometimes you see in movies, especially if it's like sci fi or. You know, something a little bit more futuristic, so you see those blue and red and yellow and how it's just like the discovery of how storytelling becomes also the game with the colors, like color is itself kind of changed the way you tell the story.
It's kind of like the same thing than the photography. And they've always done that. I mean, there is one example that they look at really old silent movie from like the 1920s, I believe, and or maybe even [00:17:00] earlier than that. And even at that time that we're still choosing certain film, there was a tiny bit yellow or tiny bit blue or completely dark or grayish, according to what time of the day they wanted to do.
Represent like if it's a sunny, bright day on the beach, they will use a little bit of yellow. And now it seems kind of stupid, but at the time it was probably kind of like, wow, this is this is the future. Right? And then. So colors, it was kind of something I feel like it, they were trying to achieve because we look at the world in color and I feel like the directors and the cinematographer being able to then say, well, I can portray what I see, um, and tell the story the way I see it.
I think it made a really, really big difference. Yeah. And
Sean Martin: I think, uh, I [00:18:00] mean, with technology now, of course. You can take something black and white and make a color, right? You can take one color and change the color. You can easily turn something color into black and white. Uh, you can, you can highlight an item within a scene, and everything's black and white except for that item.
I actually captured a shot in, um, Central Park a few years back, where it was, it was a gray Autumn day, nearly winter. So it was kind of chilly. People had coats on and things like that. And there was fall, autumn, fall. So the trees, many of them were yellow ish. The leaves were turning yellow. And starting to turn orange and red and other colors, but the majority of them are yellow, and it's kind of grayish out walking is on the main road [00:19:00] or, yeah, the main circle that circles Central Park on the road and a crosswalk and a stoplight turning yellow and a lady.
In a yellow , what do you call it? Rain jacket. So these, I didn't have to do anything. It just captured, yeah, the yellow, with the yellow-ish with the yellow light and everything else was just kind of gray scale already 'cause of the weather and, and the ground. Ground and the sky was gray and the, and the ground was gray is black.
And so the yellows popped on their own.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, it was pretty cool. That's, that's magic because it's real. Like I used to do those effect when I used to do a lot of stuff in Photoshop and like make a mask on maybe a yellow umbrella or anything like that. I think we did an ad together.
Sean Martin: We did do that.
Marco Ciappelli: It's just like ring a bell.
Sean Martin: I think there was a sheep ad too. [00:20:00]
Marco Ciappelli: There was a sheep ad.
Sean Martin: The sheep were numbered.
Marco Ciappelli: And colored.
Sean Martin: And colored for that. Yes, they were.
Marco Ciappelli: Look at that. What are we connecting thing? Uh, but I think what I was trying to say is the fact that you actually didn't have to do it in post production. You did it on the spot.
And I think there is something about the, the natural occurrence of that.
Sean Martin: And it's pretty cool when those kinds of things happen.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. You have to be,
Sean Martin: yeah, at least for me, I don't want to speak for other people, but I feel one has to be open to.
Marco Ciappelli: See it right
Sean Martin: present to see it. I'm not thinking about something else, perhaps.
Um, and then I think something special to recognize it as a moment
Marco Ciappelli: as
Sean Martin: well.
Marco Ciappelli: I know it's your favorite question to answer. So is there more value again into something that is [00:21:00] not digitally? Manipulate it versus something that is 100 percent real and then we can go into, well, that's real too. But I don't want to go there right now.
That's for another show. But the fact that and I think I want to say this because I know we kind of talked about eventually touch and then maybe next time we talk about analog and digital cameras and that kind of technique where With the film, you get, you know, you get what you, what you get, you get what you take and with digital, then, you know, the old manipulation started.
Um, so in a digital world where everything is possible, artificial intelligence done, um, is there more value in, in to say, I'm going to put a lot of time to get it right instead of thinking, eh. I can always change because that's the way I think when I shoot, [00:22:00] I want the right frame, but the way it's going to look depends on Photoshop or something else.
But a real photographer, I think it doesn't think that way. And I'm not a real photographer.
Sean Martin: There are extremes. I've seen, I've seen a lot of art shows here in, uh, in the city. And I think Art is in the eye of the beholder, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, value is in the eye of the beholder. Um, I can see, so there's the shot's captured as it is, it's produced, printed, and displayed as it is.
I think there's tremendous value in that. Um, then there are photographers that spend hours in multiple cameras and multiple frames and multiple shots and a lot of technology to produce this. A piece that is the size of a [00:23:00] five story building in high res full of brilliant color and just all of that in my mind makes it beautiful and valuable,
Marco Ciappelli: right?
Sean Martin: Because there's a lot, a lot of artistry and creativity beyond just The shot. So clearly the shot is good as well, framed and lit and all this stuff, but you can tell it's super processed, but spectacular and beautiful as well.
Marco Ciappelli: There was a choice in the earlier day too, because you could choose. A certain kind of film that had less, more exposure, or that will capture the light in a different way, maybe already has certain tonality, and then there is how you print it, the kind of paper that you use, and also the way you process it in, in the dark room, and, uh,
Sean Martin: Even the camera and the lens you choose?
Marco Ciappelli: Exactly. So there is always a choice. [00:24:00] You're never really representing reality as it is, but it's always through the decision that you make. And that's the beauty of any artist, even a sculpture or a painting. It's still, it's the reality that you see or that you want to portray. Yeah. Right.
Sean Martin: And then there's the whole, a lot of this, I mean, even film, they do multiple takes.
And presumably in, in a building is not going to change much. Maybe the lighting on the building might change the sun, uh, a landscape scene is not going to change too much. Might look different in the fall and the winter and in the spring, but generally it'll be the same. You might capture the sun. At a different point in time to capture a moment, but then there's things like moving like I've done a lot of red carpet and
Marco Ciappelli: so movement is a
Sean Martin: sport photography where you need, you need a fast lens and a fast camera and, [00:25:00] and boy, you better hope you have it focused and the lighting's good and you framed it properly and, and shooting through a cage at a MMA is, uh, quite interesting because a lot of times you might capture the actual cage and not the, yeah.
Not the subject beating the crap out of somebody else, but so a lot of the, the moments, especially when there's a lot of movement involved, um, you have to be prepared for that too, and understand what you're trying to capture and when it's the right, right time to press the button and. Do you capture one shot or 10 at the same time?
Can your camera handle that and shoot the next one at the next moment that that matters? So it's a lot of a lot of things to take into account.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, it's it's that right moment. And that's that's kind of something that we could touch on to prepare for our. Next, or maybe, you know, in a couple of episodes, a conversation again, the digital [00:26:00] versus the analog, because sometimes there may be luck, especially when you do some fast movement, it's like, Oh, I can't believe I got that shot.
Other times you kind of prepare it. But what I'm thinking now is like, nowadays, you just shoot on repeat, right? Like 30 frames in like one second. Then you look at it. Nope. Nope. Nope. Okay. This is a good smile or this is a good walk on the catwalk or this is a good jump of a horse or a run and that kind of stuff.
But I was in Berlin not too long ago and I was staying very close to where the memorial or the wall is. And it's, first of all, it's an experience that everybody should, should have and make you think. But to have this huge photos on the wall. The buildings. I mean, they're not photos. They're printed pretty much on the buildings in black and [00:27:00] white and there is one that's very iconic as this, uh, Eastern, uh, German soldier that escape before the actual wall because before being a wall, it was actually, uh, you know, um, more like a fence, a metal fence with the, anyway, this guy's escaping, it's running.
Um, and. It couldn't be a more perfect shot. I mean, the expression on his face, the position of the rifle, it's like running for his freedom and, and I'm like, all right, great shot. Also, I don't know, pretty, you know, good luck to just frame it that exact way. And at that point it was probably, I'm thinking maybe it took three, four shots and one was just so iconic.
Um, so I don't know, I'm thinking that with the digital, it's, it's a little too easy. A lot of, [00:28:00] I'm going to mix something here, but
Sean Martin: I'm going to mix something here too.
Marco Ciappelli: All right. Yeah.
Sean Martin: Cause context and environment also play a role, I think.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah.
Sean Martin: And even, even one's own personal frame of mind, um, somebody else seeing that same shot may or may not feel and see what you saw and have the same experience.
And so I think you, you talked about if it's. Digitally manipulated, or if it's, if it's a raw as it comes shot, uh, it wouldn't, this wouldn't have more value versus the other, I also think it depends on where it's going. So that on the wall on the side of a building near, near the place where it happened, very different than framed as framed as a print inside of a doctor's office.
Right.
Marco Ciappelli: I, um,
Sean Martin: so there are galleries, there are personal displays or there are [00:29:00] office displays there. Yeah, I think and different people in those different environments experiencing it will have their own own experience as well.
Marco Ciappelli: Absolutely. I mean, it's the whole context. I agree with you. Um, still a great shot.
Yeah, nevertheless, but probably announced.
Sean Martin: I mean some end up on the cover of time and things like that, right?
Marco Ciappelli: That one definitely it's one of those kind of shot, uh, but Yeah, it makes sense because it's even you can apply that to
Sean Martin: did you see the one I got on time magazine
Marco Ciappelli: yours? Yeah, no, you should
Sean Martin: It's not there yet.
Marco Ciappelli: It's kind of
Sean Martin: One day when they started no,
Marco Ciappelli: no, no. Well, that's another context Uh, thing, right? I mean, what I'm, what I was referring to, it's like, if you, one show that I'd like to watch, me and my [00:30:00] wife, when we don't have anything specific to watch, we just put Antique Roadshow on PBS. And, you know, it's usually five minutes for someone to understand if their painting is worth anything, their, uh, you know, their vase, maybe Stephanie or Cartier watch or Rolex, whatever it is, but you're learning history, but also you learn that.
The value of those antiques, they change in time. Like sometimes something in 2024 is worth that much, but in 2011, in 2011 maybe it was worth a lot less or a lot more. Maybe because the artist just died. Maybe because that time it's hot. Uh, certain product or another, or if you're selling an artist in the area where it maybe practice and it was born and they depict into their painting and photography, it's usually worth more than if you go sell it somewhere that is not.
[00:31:00] Talking about context, that's pretty, pretty important too. Yeah.
Sean Martin: So it makes me, makes me think. And I'm gonna switch, it's the same metaphor, but I'm gonna switch to music. 'cause I sent you a photo yesterday, last night. Uh, a picture of a harps accord.
Marco Ciappelli: Mm-hmm .
Sean Martin: And an A Accord, harps accord, pre curs to the piano.
Marco Ciappelli: Mm-hmm . And
Sean Martin: it's
Marco Ciappelli: the pirate version.
Sean Martin: It's the black and white version. Of the piano, which is the color version.
Marco Ciappelli: Oh, you mean because of the chromatic scale of notes that he could.
Sean Martin: And yeah, just the sound and everything. It's not as evolved as the. So, and the scales are, yeah. Way it's tuned and everything, and it's chromatic, uh, uh, tuning and whatnot.
And, I mean, that picture, you look at that thing, and you're like, that thing is a piece of junk. But it, [00:32:00] but in reality, it's old, and it's probably been, the, the, the original leg's probably Disintegrated over time and they, they put on, it looks like they, they stole them from a kitchen table somewhere, right?
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, they could have done a better job of restoring them. They could have done
Sean Martin: a better, better job for sure. But I just, I guess my point is that even in music, and I'm sure if we look at any art or trade or something, we can, we can look at something and say that that early version is kind of the equivalent to the black and white version of
Marco Ciappelli: photography.
Well, maybe when it was also very young. Very raw, right? I mean, look at the definition of a movie from, even in color, if you watch a movie from the 70s, it's pretty much completely different than, than the kind of details that you get nowadays, 4k, 8k, whatever, nowadays, but if you, when you put it into context, and [00:33:00] that's, that's another thing, maybe we can talk about this another time, like look at the sci fi, I love sci fi, I love That kind of movies.
And you look at one, like, I don't know, look at Star Wars, the first one, you can't compare it to the special effect or a Godzilla from the fifties, but you need to put it into the context of when it was done, you can't just compare it with today, you need to say when they filmed this, how freaking cool was that with what they had.
And a good example to go back in black and white, I can say at Casablanca, one day, we decided to kind of look old movies, watch them. And I'm like, I Yeah, for 50 years I've never seen Casablanca, except for a little frame here and there. We watched the whole thing and it blew me away, like, yeah, the story wasn't that fascinating to me, but the shadows and [00:34:00] the black and white and the music and the interaction between people is just like, you finish that and you're like, that thing, it's a freaking masterpiece.
When you put it also into context of when it was film. Yeah, it's unbelievable. So yeah one final point
Sean Martin: one final point on the harpsichord Cuz he I noticed that when One is performing on the piano you Play the chords and typically you'd play unless you're trying to do something special you play all the keys of that chord in one unless you're doing a run or something and when she was playing a chord I don't know if it was most of the time, but it certainly caught my attention.
That instead of pressing three or four keys at once, she would very quickly in succession, almost like they were together, but the four [00:35:00] keys would be pressed in sequence. Very, very close to each other. But it would, it would provide a brr, brr, brr, instead of a dun, dun, dun, in a chord sound. You'd still end up with the chord sound as much as you can with a harpsichord.
But she manipulated the sound. By using your fingers more, it's quite interesting,
Marco Ciappelli: isn't the RP chord that doesn't it doesn't carry doesn't have the resonance of the piano,
Sean Martin: right?
Marco Ciappelli: And that's probably more than I expected. You had to do one after another. I'm thinking to prolong the effect of a chord. Well, if I do it on a on a pipe organ in a church that lasts forever, right?
That's the beauty of it. You can build on the same chord with different notes and the base stays there. But That case makes you think why was she pushing one after another after another still sound like a chord, but It wasn't necessarily
Sean Martin: have [00:36:00] to get that little extra Next girl
Marco Ciappelli: you play with what you got man.
Sean Martin: Exactly.
Marco Ciappelli: You play with what you got and
Sean Martin: She was incredible.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, I think that arts and music and everything just changed based on that I mean you could talk about skills of people driving formula one Look at a race in the 60s, 70s, and look at it now, kind of boring actually, but that's a story for another, for another time, Sean, 36 minutes on a Friday afternoon.
That could be another
Sean Martin: topic. Is it predictable? We talked about that earlier today, too, with my experience last night. That's true.
Marco Ciappelli: Well, I enjoyed this conversation. I hope people do. I'm gonna run out of
Sean Martin: hats, just so everybody knows.
Marco Ciappelli: You know what you do, just turn it around.
Sean Martin: I'll hold it out for donations.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, or put a sticker on that one. You can do that. Now. I [00:37:00] really enjoy this. This has become this is what number three of our Random and script and even announced it at this point. We just like Random part as we
Sean Martin: announce who we are and what we're doing at the end. I'm Sean you're Marco.
Marco Ciappelli: I am
Sean Martin: this is random and unscripted And I'm going to play us out with, uh, some fabulous music, Marco,
Marco Ciappelli: did you compose this?
Sean Martin: I composed for my song for my show.
Marco Ciappelli: That's true. I did. Well, stay tuned, subscribe,
Sean Martin: subscribe,
Marco Ciappelli: share,
Sean Martin: stay random,
Marco Ciappelli: stay random and stay unscripted, please.
Sean Martin: Especially unscripted. Peace.