The line between the physical and virtual worlds is no longer real—it's a figment of our imagination. There’s no better place than here, and no better time than now, to reflect on our relationship with technology and redefine what society means in this new age.
The Secret Truth: A Jake Scott Mystery (Book): https://amzn.to/3BVs9Uo
Kilimanjaro and Beyond: A Life-Changing Journey (Book): https://amzn.to/3Noyk64
Guest: Barry Finlay, Author
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-finlay-01484825/
Website | https://www.barry-finlay.com/
Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/AuthorBarryFinlay/
Goodreads | https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/5213951.Barry_Finlay
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast & Audio Signals Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
In this episode of the Audio Signal Podcast, I had the distinct pleasure of diving into the world of storytelling with the remarkable Barry Finlay. Barry is renowned for his ability to captivate audiences through his thrilling mystery novels, and his newest release, "The Secret Truth," promises to be another page-turner.
Meet Barry Finlay: The Accidental Adventurer
Barry's journey into the world of writing is itself a fascinating tale. Born in central Canada and initially rooted in a career defined by numbers as an accountant for the Canadian federal government, he made a surprising transition into becoming a full-time author. His leap from the predictable world of accountancy to the unpredictable world of writing wasn’t just a career change; it was a life change prompted by a major physical challenge—climbing Mount Kilimanjaro at nearly 60 years old. This adventure sparked his first book and led him on a wildly different trajectory than he ever imagined.
Crafting Stories: A Journey from Nonfiction to Mystery
Barry's transformation into a storyteller wasn't immediate. Initially, he penned nonfiction works based on his life experiences, like "Kilimanjaro and Beyond." However, his creativity truly found its calling in the world of mystery and thrillers. Our conversation revealed how Barry's characters, much like his writing process, developed organically, often leading him on unpredictable paths.
The difference Barry outlines between mystery and thrillers is profound—mysteries are character-driven, requiring readers to guess the perpetrator until the very end, while thrillers often present a transparent dichotomy between hero and villain from the onset. For Barry, this distinction is critical and reflects in the intricate layering found in his writing.
"The Secret Truth": A Peek into Barry’s Latest Work
Barry's latest novel, "The Secret Truth," is the third installment in his Jake Scott Mystery Series. Set against a backdrop of intrigue, peril, and personal stakes, Jake Scott finds himself embroiled in an investigation following the dramatic explosion of a bed and breakfast. Barry describes this suspense as a complex puzzle, filled with subtle clues and misdirections—a true testament to his mastery in the mystery genre.
Advice for Aspiring Writers
Barry offers invaluable advice for budding writers drawn to the art of storytelling. He emphasizes the importance of simply starting—writing one's thoughts on paper before editing or seeking feedback. Recognizing the significant role marketing plays post-writing, Barry encourages resilience against negative reviews, reminding aspiring authors to stay true to their vision despite criticism.
Our conversation illuminated not just the mechanics of writing but the soul behind it. Barry Finlay's stories are powerful reminders of how storytelling transcends genres and media, shaping our perceptions of reality—both virtual and tangible.
About the Books
The Secret Truth: A Jake Scott Mystery - Attention all readers! Get ready for a gripping mystery that will leave you on the edge of your seat. Jake Scott, a retired reporter, is on his way to a peaceful bed and breakfast when his life is suddenly put at risk by a reckless driver. But his journey takes an even more dangerous turn when he approaches the bed and breakfast he is staying at and it explodes, killing all occupants. Homicide detective Dani Perez is determined to uncover the truth, and she enlists Jake's help to investigate the backgrounds of the victims. As Jake delves deeper into the case, he uncovers dark secrets that point to a sinister plot at the bed and breakfast. With the clock ticking and danger lurking at every turn, Jake must use all his investigative skills to solve the mystery before it's too late. Fans of suspense and thrilling plot twists will not want to miss this page-turner. For fans of "Gone Girl," this book is a must-read.
Kilimanjaro and Beyond: A Life-Changing Journey - EVERY MOUNTAIN TOP IS WITHIN REACH IF YOU JUST KEEP CLIMBING - Barry Finlay It is January 16, 2009, and 60 year-old BARRY FINLAY and his son CHRIS are propped against a rock, struggling to draw a breath on their treacherous climb up Mount Kilimanjaro. Their destination is tantalizingly close, yet the weather and -- more importantly -- their health will determine the end result. Barry's backpack holds a Canadian flag with the names of over 200 donors mobilized by the climbers back home. The donors have contributed to providing classrooms and clean water for desperately deserving school children in Tanzania. For Barry, this is a life-changing physical, mental and spiritual adventure. Follow along as he and his son strive to climb one of the World's Seven Summits, meet the children who will benefit from their fundraising, and come to an understanding that one or two people really can make a difference. It is a journey that leaves the two with the lasting impression that nothing is more satisfying than reaching a goal and giving others the opportunity to achieve theirs. "If you're the kind of person who can usually find any excuse to talk yourself out of a great idea, this book is the inspiration you need to get out of your comfort zone and make things happen." Helen Osler, author of Cameras of Kilimanjaro, Australia
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Resources
The Secret Truth: A Jake Scott Mystery (Book): https://amzn.to/3BVs9Uo
Kilimanjaro and Beyond: A Life-Changing Journey (Book): https://amzn.to/3Noyk64
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Books | “Kilimanjaro and Beyond” & ”The Secret Truth" | A Conversation with Author Barry Finlay | Audio Signals Podcast With Marco Ciappelli
Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:31] Marco Ciappelli: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of audio signals podcast. I have to say that I kind of changed the way that I, I, I log into the platform for recording lately. I was just thinking about this. When, when you start doing podcasts, which has been a few years now, you had that pressure to say, Oh, I have to do this podcast.
You know, there's always a little bit of nervousness before you get on and like, how do I sound? How am I going to sound? And is the conversation going to be great? After such a long time doing this, and especially with AudioSignal Podcast, where we talk about stories, my attitude is, I'm going to sit down with somebody that I never met before, most of the time, and I'm going to listen to a great story.
And because I talk to storytellers, it's pretty much a guarantee. Some stories are better than others. And, uh, but overall, I always walk away with something, something that enrich, uh, my imagination, it enrich my knowledge, and, uh, I have a good feeling that this is going to be one of those, as I always say, we're all made of stories.
And I know that Barry, Barry Finlay, which is here on the show with me, he has, uh, he has a few in the pocket. He has a few in the books. Um, he has some that he lived, um, talking about climb being a very tall mountains and I don't want to give away more than that. So I want you guys to stay tuned and, uh, and just have Barry, uh, introduce himself and say hello.
And, uh, Barry welcomes the show.
[00:02:13] Barry Finlay: Thank you very much, Marco. It's great to be here.
[00:02:16] Marco Ciappelli: It is great to have you. I already kind of read a little bit of a story about you in your bio, but I'd like to start with my first question, which is who is Barry and you can get as philosophical as you want.
[00:02:29] Barry Finlay: Well, I was, uh, I was born in central Canada and, uh, raised on a farm there.
I was, uh, I guess I was driving a truck when I was 12 years old and driving the tractor in my teens. And, uh, but by 18 years of age, I decided this wasn't for me. So, uh, I moved into the big city and, uh, got my accounting designation. I ended up working for the Canadian federal government for 31 and a half years, I guess, and, uh, retired.
And then that lasted for maybe, uh, six months or something. And I got bored and started consulting and, uh, I ended up consulting for 10 years. So, um, but during that time, I, uh, I went to the doctor for a physical and, and he told me my triglyceride levels were elevated and I wasn't sure what that meant. So I asked him and he said, well, it could lead to heart attack or stroke.
And so, uh, I took him at his word. And on the way home, I signed up with a personal trainer. Who turned out to be a woman of 21 years of age. And, uh, she thought I should be able to do everything she could do. I was, uh, I was approaching 60 at this time. And, uh, So for the first few sessions, I, uh, had to sit in the change room with my head between my knees to try and will myself not to throw up.
But, uh, over time I started to feel better and I was approaching my 60th birthday and, and, uh, started to wonder what I could do with my newfound energy and, uh, better feeling. I lost 28 pounds during that time and, um, and felt tremendous. So our son had talked about climbing Kilimanjaro. Uh, a couple of years before, I guess.
And I guess it kind of stuck with me. So I asked him if he'd be interested in going. And, uh, he had a one year old daughter at the time. So he had some interesting conversations, I assume, with his wife. And, uh, anyway, he ended up saying yes. So off we went to climb Kilimanjaro and that, that kind of led to, well, when we were first talking about it, we looked for a book that would actually take you up the mountain.
And couldn't find any at that time. And so when we came back and started doing presentations, we realized there was an interest. And, uh, so we wrote a, wrote a book about it, about the climb. And that has led to, uh, I guess, 10 more books since then I'll be publishing my 11th on September 3rd. So, um, so yeah, my life changed completely.
I consider Kilimanjaro and Beyond to be a life changing experience. That's the name of the book. And, uh, it certainly was in my.
[00:05:17] Marco Ciappelli: So the question for me, and I have many, of course, that's my job, but the first one is, okay, you go from a career where you probably sit a lot and you're not in the best shape of your life, you lose weight, you find energy, then your son says, you didn't say, let's go for a hike.
You know, in the wood nearby Ottawa, he said, let's go to Kilimanjaro. So my, my, my question is, you guys must have had experience, uh, in climbing before, or you didn't just wake up and go to Kilimanjaro?
[00:05:56] Barry Finlay: Well, we kind of did. Wow. That's
[00:06:01] Marco Ciappelli: the story right there.
[00:06:03] Barry Finlay: I had no experience in climbing whatsoever. Whoa. Uh, I had like, I'd done some athletics obviously growing up and, and, uh, our son was involved in soccer and, uh, CrossFit and, um, obstacle course racing and things like that, but he hadn't really done any climbing either.
And so, uh, why we decided to do that, looking back, I'm not quite sure why we chose Kilimanjaro, other than we had, uh, talked about it a little bit and the seed had been planted in my head. I'd always had an interest in mountains. I, um, my aunt took me through the Rocky Mountains when I was 12 and I was fascinated by mountains then.
And then when I was in my twenties, I saw. A presentation by Laurie Screslet, who was the first Canadian to climb Mount Everest. And, uh, I was just fascinated by that. So I think I always had this fascination with mountains. And, uh, we did a lot of research before we decided to go to see if it was something.
We could really accomplish. And, uh, there was still some question, uh, Kilimanjaro or any mountain of that size is a bit of a crapshoot, whether you're going to make it or not. And it's got nothing to do with, with age, or it has some to do with, uh, your physical condition, but it has a lot to do with your, the way you're going to adapt to the altitude.
And so we didn't know that going in and nobody does, they don't know how they're going to adapt to that kind of altitude. Um, But as it turned out, uh, our son had a bit of a tougher time than I did. He was 30 at the time, uh, and in pretty good shape, but the altitude affected him worse than it did me. And so it's just.
It's, I guess, how your metabolism reacts to it. I had some altitude sickness, but not to the extent that he did. So, but, uh, to answer your question, why we chose to climb a mountain instead of going for a hike? Uh, I'm not sure I can answer that.
[00:08:09] Marco Ciappelli: Well, I think I could answer, but I'm probably my first thing.
My first thought actually is Kilimanjaro has been in so many movies. It's been in many books. It's been like so many adventure It's it's beautiful. I don't think for what I know I'm, not a climber, but I don't think it's as technical as many other mountains You said you can but you know, it's still a challenge.
So, uh, I just love that you've said, you know, let's just do it So, and then you put all of that into, into a book.
[00:08:42] Barry Finlay: Yes, it is considered a hike. You're right. It's, it's, uh, like you don't need, uh, ropes and ladders and things like that. And if we'd needed ropes and ladders, I wouldn't have gone because I'm, I'm not crazy about hikes and heights in the first place.
So, um, but it is, it is a hike. And, uh, it's a
[00:09:01] Marco Ciappelli: challenge though, right?
[00:09:03] Barry Finlay: It's definitely a challenge. It's 19, 000 feet. So, uh, in the last 600 feet or so or a killer, but, uh, but we made it so, uh, and it was just a fantastic experience.
[00:09:18] Marco Ciappelli: Very cool. So, uh, at the beginning of your bio, you say something that reminded me of, uh, uh, Dory's character in Finding Nemo just keeps swimming, except you said just keep climbing.
And I think that refers metaphorically, not just to the mountain, but I'm assuming life in general.
[00:09:43] Barry Finlay: Yeah. A couple of things about that. Um, we were hiking, I think it was, I'm not sure, day six or seven, I think. And we were hiking along, we'd been hiking for about 12 hours already and everybody was just beat.
And, uh, our son, Chris was at the back of the line. And he said, just keep swimming. Yeah. And he was, he was referring to the movie. And so I thought about that when we came back and came up with the motto that every mountaintop is within reach if you just keep climbing. And my most recent book, in fact, is a nonfiction called Just Keep Climbing.
And it kind of, it came along, I guess, 15 years or 14 years ago, but I interviewed eight inspirational people. And kind of incorporated my own, uh, life into the book, uh, 14 years later, and, uh, and included their stories and, uh, each one of them in my mind has kept climbing because some of the, the stories are, uh, some of the things that have happened to them are pretty significant and they've come out the other side.
And, uh, so, um, so yeah, I've written based, I've written the book based on the. On the motto, just keep climbing.
[00:11:05] Marco Ciappelli: All right, so let's get into the storytelling. From what I understand, uh, you haven't written before the climb. I mean, you had another job. I'm sure like every job involves writing, but you know, not maybe creative writing.
And, uh, then you, you wrote several books, but seems to mean your creative, uh, path. It's brought you to mystery writing. Um, how that come about and what's the connection with that life changing experience and actually going to go write about that.
[00:11:45] Barry Finlay: Yeah, I did actually write, uh, as part of my career, I spent about 10 years writing financial policy.
Okay. Nobody reads financial policy unless they have to, but, uh, but, uh, yeah, I think it honed my writing skills and made me a better writer for sure. Um, And, and so I wrote the two nonfiction books. There was one called, I guess we missed the boat, which was, uh, based on our travels. I traveled, uh, quite a bit with my in laws.
So, uh, so there were some humorous stories that came out of that. Um, and then I decided I wanted to challenge myself. I'm, as I said earlier, I'm an accountant, I think, and, uh, all right. I think I said it, but, um, I'm an accountant. So accountants aren't necessarily supposed to be that creative. And, uh, just by definition.
And so I wanted to challenge myself and see if I could write a thriller at that time. And, um, so I, uh, based the character on a mild mannered accountant, which, uh, uh, Then that developed into a series of five books. But that was the reason I, I decided to write, uh, to go into the thriller or mystery genre was basically just to challenge myself and see if I could do it.
And, um, it turned out okay and, uh, so I've continued on from there. So
[00:13:14] Marco Ciappelli: you like the genre. Did you grow up reading that? Cause usually a lot of writer, you know, they're like, you got to read a lot to write a lot. Yeah. I,
[00:13:26] Barry Finlay: I do like that genre and I still like that genre. I still, when I read, I read a little bit of everything, but definitely more thrillers and, uh, and mysteries than anything else.
And, um, you know, that gives me ideas of, um, where to go. And I, I, I find myself now paying more attention to the writing than to the plot. So I, I'm looking at, at how they're delivering the story, how the author is delivering the story, as opposed to the story itself. So in some ways, maybe it's taken the enjoyment out of reading a little bit.
I don't find myself reading as much as I used to. And, uh, and I'm focusing on something different than I used to. Before I started writing,
[00:14:14] Marco Ciappelli: I can see that, but, um, I kind of have that with, with movies and that's because, you know, my wife is involved with that industry and, and I know now what I didn't know before, like how long it takes to do a scene, what they're doing there.
And so I, I started like pointing out continuity and because she did for many years and now I'm like, but I, I, maybe I appreciate even more. The craft. Um, yeah. Right. So maybe you don't get too involved or as involved in the story, but you do appreciate it, I think, from a more different angles, right?
[00:14:52] Barry Finlay: Absolutely. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And different authors have different styles. So it's. It's interesting to see how the different authors, uh, pull their subject matter together. And, uh, tell me about your style.
[00:15:05] Marco Ciappelli: Are you a plotter? Are you, you right out of your, you know, I've tried. You let the character go.
What, what, what do you do? Yeah,
[00:15:14] Barry Finlay: I've tried plotting. Um, I can't do it. , I've, uh, . I think, um, I suppose I'm a bit of a hybrid because I plot maybe two or three chapters ahead. I don't write it down. I, uh, kind of plot it out in my head and I know, I know where it's going, but I find the characters take me in directions that I never expected.
And the story takes me in directions that I never expected. And that for me is, is one of the joys of writing. Uh, and I really don't know how it's going to end until it ends. So I'm, um, you know, I always look forward to finishing a book and see how it ends when I'm writing it. But, um, no, I, I, uh, like I said, I've tried to plot and, uh, I just can't because I just, and what I did try and plot, I found the characters and the storyline still took me in a different direction than I expected.
So I would have to sit down and re plot. So there's no point in that for me, you know, I might as well just sit there and write and see where it goes. And I, I admire people who can plot because I think it probably, uh, it probably makes it a little bit easier to, uh, to write the book. If you've got the basic outline then there, then you're kind of filling in the blanks, but it's just not for me.
It's just not something I could do.
[00:16:41] Marco Ciappelli: I've spoke with both, um, people that really plot everything, people that had the beginning and the end, and then they know that they have to. Like one of the podcasts that it would have been, it would be already published once I published yours, because it's a past conversation, but it's not live at the time of this conversation.
He created, he creates world kind of like talking and, you know, it's all fantasy. And, uh, so he, he starts with mapping and then he connected all the dots and another they're more like you. And I feel like it's kind of like in everything in life. I feel like, um, in a profession, you always admire people that can do it different from you.
And I think that people that don't plot, they wish they could plot a little bit more and, and, and writers actually just leave their characters go and maybe they wish, and maybe the truth is in the middle. Yeah.
[00:17:42] Barry Finlay: Yeah. It could be. And I find I have to, uh, track of my characters and their characteristics and stuff like that.
Uh, so I don't get all that confused because I've written a five book series now, uh, Uh, called the Marcy Kane Thriller Collection. And then I'm working on the Jake Scott Mystery Series and I'm releasing the third book in September. And, um, so I have to keep the characters, uh, uh, keep track of the characters and, and, uh, you know, make sure that, uh, They don't have brown hair in one book and, uh, and black hair in another book or something, you
[00:18:22] Marco Ciappelli: know.
Unless they are shapeshifter in that case. Well, yes.
[00:18:27] Barry Finlay: I haven't quite gotten there yet.
[00:18:29] Marco Ciappelli: Tell me, tell me about, uh, your characters and, and, and why is for you, did it come at Is it easier to, to just develop the same character over and over? I mean, it's pretty common, and I'm not saying it is easy for everyone, but because some people just want to write a book, get done with it, and then go with a completely new story.
Um, how do you feel about your character and why do you assume you, you like it so much that? Writing about it.
[00:19:01] Barry Finlay: Yeah. And my, my first series I came up with, there were actually two main characters. It was Marcy Cain who was a very independent, uh, divorced woman who was a little bit sarcastic and, and sometimes.
Um, did things irrationally and got herself in trouble as a result. And there was a mild mannered accountant whose name was Mason Seaforth. And, uh, the two of them get together in the first book and, uh, And well, uh, Mason's wife disappears on the night of their 20th anniversary. So he gets into her computer and find some things there that, uh, he hadn't been aware of, and, uh, so he enlists the help of Marcy Cain, who is his wife's best friend, to help him out.
And at the end of that book, I could have gone in two different directions. I could have run with Mason Seaforth. Mild mannered accountant, or I could have run with Marcy Cain. The next book was, um, called A Perilous Question. And it's about two young girls from Africa who, uh, end up, well, one of them asked, so when are you taking me to America?
And she asked the wrong person. He ends up taking them. So it's a human trafficking story. And I thought Marcy Cain fit better with the story. So, um, So I continued on with Marcy, continued to develop her character and, um, and so I ran with that. I enjoyed her character, so I ran with that for the five book series, uh, and then when I decided I wanted to write mysteries as opposed to thrillers, and I see that, uh, in my mind there's a bit of a differentiation between the two, um,
[00:20:49] Marco Ciappelli: Can you, can you tell me about I was thinking of the character That, that difference?
even for the audience? I will.
[00:20:55] Barry Finlay: I will. Just let me finish the thought here about, uh, uh, so I, I, I needed a character for the mystery series and, um, I always liked the Mason Seaforth character. So I reinvented him as an investigative reporter called Jake Scott. And so he's, um, uh, so he actually is the, the second character from the first book, in effect, um, different name, different, uh, different background and so on.
But, uh, getting back to your question about the way I differentiate, I see thrillers as being more, uh, plot driven and mysteries being more character driven in my mind. That's how I differentiate between the two. So, um, uh, but you know, in the, in the thriller, there's a tension and there's also tension in the mysteries, but, uh, I feel that the mystery and the mystery should leave you hanging until the end.
So you have to guess or try and figure out who the perp is, whereas the thriller may be more, um, May be clear at the beginning, you might, you might actually know who the, the bad guy is right up front and, and look at the book from, or the story from two different perspectives. The, the good guy, the bad guy.
So, uh, that's how I differentiate the two.
[00:22:19] Marco Ciappelli: It makes sense. I never thought about it from that perspective. But yeah, you're right. Sometimes even in the movies itself that are mostly based on, on books, you may just see who is the guilt, the guilty person or the bad guy right away. Yeah, right. But you're still attached to, to the story and the way it develops and it's a different construction.
Yeah.
[00:22:46] Barry Finlay: Absolutely. And in, in a thriller, you may, uh, you may develop both characters, you know, so somebody may have an affinity for some aspects of the bad guy as well.
[00:22:59] Marco Ciappelli: Right. Well, in the mystery, you can't because otherwise it's giving it up.
[00:23:03] Barry Finlay: It has to
[00:23:05] Marco Ciappelli: stay, you know, who's the, who is the killer at the table?
Exactly.
[00:23:11] Barry Finlay: And that's part of the fun of creating a mystery is, you know, leaving a couple of clues, subtle clues, uh, misdirection. So that people think that, uh, the bad guy is somebody who it isn't. Um, and so, you know, there's a certain, there's a lot of fun in putting that together as well.
[00:23:32] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, you're, you're, you're building a puzzle, uh, when you're doing that.
And I think it takes a certain kind of, certain kind of, of, of mind to, to do that. Um, so talking about the mind, so a lot of people, It's kind of like music or any other sort of art, even painting, I mean, whatever you want. I mean, for me, storytelling is everything, right? Every art, you're just using a different medium to tell your story.
Some people, they get comfortable in a certain style, in a certain genre and, you know, and their career is, is that. That there is nothing else. Others, they like the challenge. Now, I'm already seeing in what you do that you write non fiction, you write, uh, personal experience, like the Missing the Boat or the Adventure on the Kilimanjaro, then you jump on this other.
How do you psychologically and stylistically approach when you're writing fiction and when you're writing? Emotion and I don't know, real life. I don't know how to define that.
[00:24:46] Barry Finlay: I base my characters on, uh, people that I've met, um, and, or, or certain characteristics of people that I met. Like they could be a conglomeration of people that, that I've met somewhere along the way, but I think I, maybe I subconsciously study people a little bit.
And, uh, kind of collect ideas about different things and, and there are different people. And so that's how I try and put myself in the, in the mindset of the person I'm writing about. And, uh, I try and think how I would react in a situation that they're in. Not that I would ever want to be in the situation that I put some of them in, but, you know, I try and, I try and put myself in, in their shoes.
And, uh, and that's how I develop my characters is, uh, what would I do in that situation? And, uh, or that's how I, how I develop what they're going to do next or how they're going to, uh, deal with the situation they're in.
[00:25:53] Marco Ciappelli: And how does that change when you're writing about the memoir of your Kilimanjaro ascent?
[00:26:02] Barry Finlay: Well, in that case, we were writing what we lived.
[00:26:05] Marco Ciappelli: Right. But do you feel like you're using a different style in writing itself? I mean, do you have to say, okay, this is not that. You know what I mean?
[00:26:15] Barry Finlay: Yeah, it is a different style for sure. Because, um, you have to, with the mystery or the thriller, you're creating something.
You're, you're creating something out of your imagination. And, um, whereas, uh, whereas with the nonfiction, you're just, you know, you lived your experience, so you have to, you're trying to put that down on paper and explain how you lived and make it an interesting enough that somebody's going to read it, um, whereas with the, uh, with fiction, you're, you're actually dredging something up from your imagination and trying to, uh, uh, trying to express that.
[00:26:56] Marco Ciappelli: It's
[00:26:56] Barry Finlay: a different mindset.
[00:26:58] Marco Ciappelli: It
[00:26:58] Barry Finlay: is
[00:26:58] Marco Ciappelli: for sure. So I'm gonna, I want to finish and take this last few minutes that we have, like five minutes or so in, um, maybe giving your perspective and your advice to someone that, you know, like you, get to a certain point on their life and, uh, and they want to start. Writing.
I think a lot of people in the audience are either already writing or they want to become better writers. And so you have, you have this experience, both, both life experience and, and 10 books after under your belt. So what, what, uh, what's your advice about that?
[00:27:42] Barry Finlay: Yeah. I get asked that a lot when I'm doing book signings.
And my initial advice is if you've got a story in your head, Put it down on paper. It doesn't matter, you know, how good it is or how bad it is or whatever. Just put it down. Just sit down and write because that's the hardest part, I think, is to actually start writing. And, uh, write it, walk away from it, let it simmer for a bit, And then go back and, and do your edits or look at it and see whether you like it, make the changes you think are necessary.
Um, I always warn people that marketing, you know, once you get done through the writing process, marketing is about 70 percent of the, uh, of the writing process to me. The actual writing part is about 30%. And I, I find I spent a tremendous amount of time. Marketing, uh, on the computer and doing a lot of work, but my, um, my primary piece of advice is to sit down and write and, and, and let somebody else read it.
It doesn't hurt to you to get some feedback and hopefully they'll be honest with, uh, with the feedback they're providing. I remember, uh, when we first wrote Kilimanjaro and Beyond. And we found an editor or one of our sons is a musician in Nashville. So, um, he's, he's got friends who this particular person wrote for Billboard magazine.
And so I said, I wanted to have a, a call with her before she started, before she actually started editing, but I sent her the book to read and, uh, she read it and we talked and I said, I don't want you to just. picking up typos and grammatical errors, you know, I want your feedback.
The right to preach. And what she meant by that was that I had started out, um, advising people on what they could do to climb a mountain. Then I talked about climbing the mountain and she says, talk about climbing the mountain first, then talk about, um, telling people how they should do it. And it was a great advice.
It was, uh, you know, it was amazing advice and I flipped everything around and made for a better book. So, uh, the important thing is to, to get somebody to read it and, um, and hopefully somebody you can trust to give you.
Critical comments, not necessarily criticism. Like they don't want you to destroy your confidence, but you want somebody who's honest and, and willing to give you, uh, comments that will help you be a better writer.
[00:30:31] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, I think there is an humbling process in that. And because, I don't know, I mean, that one that you describe, it's definitely kind of like a structural change in the plot, you know, let's say of the story.
And it totally makes sense. Some other people may read it. And I feel like nobody read the same book. Nobody listened to the same song or watch the same movie. It's or It's how you interpret things. So i'm sure that especially in writing sometimes you hear things that You may not agree with and that you're not going to change Because if you're going to change everything because somebody tells you you're never going to be done And it's not going to be your thing.
So um, how how to You Where do you draw a line? Um, you know, I'm sure even like your readers, sometimes they may, you know, with reviews nowadays, everybody is an expert and everybody has something to say. Um, how do you react to that?
[00:31:34] Barry Finlay: In the end, it's your book.
[00:31:35] Marco Ciappelli: Right.
[00:31:36] Barry Finlay: That's, that's the way I look at it. So, uh, So when I get comments from an editor, I don't necessarily accept them all.
Well, I don't. I don't accept them all.
[00:31:46] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah,
[00:31:46] Barry Finlay: and you should. Uh, no, I accept the ones that I feel will make it a better book. And, uh, that doesn't necessarily mean everything I I read or see. It's, it's a lot like getting reviews for your book. You're going to get positive reviews. get negative reviews. And that's another piece of advice for aspiring authors is, um, don't let the negative review reviews get you down because that can happen.
And they're the ones you remember. It's not the positive comments that you remember. It's the negative ones. And, uh, so I, uh, so I advise people not to take the negative reviews. The reviews or the criticism too seriously, but if there's something there that they feel that can make it a better book, then, uh, then listen to it and react accordingly.
[00:32:39] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, I think it's who is the source of that too. Is that a qualified person? And I mean, I may be a qualified person and just comment on your post on LinkedIn. And you got accepted, but a lot of people, you know, it's like when you put out a podcast, I mean, there may be people that like the way I carry the conversation and other people don't.
But in the end, it's my podcast.
[00:33:03] Barry Finlay: We had, uh, when we wrote Kilimanjaro and beyond, we got a literary award one day and, uh, we were all happy about that. And then there was a review review the same day that was a one star review and said the, the, the Finleys can't write or something like that. Something like that.
And that was, that was my first bad review. And my first reaction was to fire back. Say, look, we got a literary award. What are you talking about? And my wife told me that maybe I should leave it for 24 hours. And so, and she was absolutely right. You know, that, uh, afterwards I just thought it was, you know, just somebody had a bad day or something.
[00:33:44] Marco Ciappelli: Very, very wise advice from your wife. I've been dealing with branding and content marketing as my real job, let's say, although it is a real job too, but, uh, well, yeah, when social media came out and celebrities and personality get attacked constantly, you taking a breather, don't engage. That's really, really good advice.
And there's always going to be that bad one. You know, best hotel in the world, five stars on TripAdvisor. But there is that one person that found a spider, uh, you know, on the pillar. Like that's, that's the fault of the hotel management because the spiders sneak in. Well, you know, just statistic, remove the two good, remove the two bad.
And then stay in the median as an accountant. You probably know that.
[00:34:39] Barry Finlay: I was going through my reviews one day and I don't do that. I, uh, Now I don't read reviews very much, but I was going through one day and I noticed somebody had given me a three star, it said good book. And so I was curious, you know, if it was a good book, why wasn't it four stars or five stars?
So I dug a little deeper and that day. She had given 18 books a three star review with the comment good book and the day before She had given 17 books a three star review with the comment good book
[00:35:13] Marco Ciappelli: So it wasn't even something that was read
[00:35:17] Barry Finlay: by that person. I doubt it very much Why anybody would do that?
I don't know but
[00:35:21] Marco Ciappelli: no Why is it interesting? Social media is still a mystery to me.
[00:35:28] Barry Finlay: Certainly
[00:35:29] Marco Ciappelli: is. It's a psychological mystery. Maybe it's an idea for your next book. It's some kind of mystery of why people troll on social media.
[00:35:39] Barry Finlay: If anybody could answer that, they'd be a millionaire, I think.
[00:35:42] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, pretty much.
Listen, 30 seconds, whatever you want to take to introduce your upcoming book, which probably By the time we publish this, it's either just came out or about to, um, and I know it's the third book in the series that you mentioned before. So, uh, the mic is yours.
[00:36:07] Barry Finlay: Okay. Thank you. It was, uh, well, it is the third book in the Jake Scott Mystery Series.
In this particular book, Jake is, has to stay in a bed and breakfast because there's some work being done on his house. So he's coming home and, uh, to the bed and breakfast and a car nearly runs him down. And, uh, so he picks himself up and continues on to the bed and breakfast. And just before he gets there, the bed and breakfast explodes, killing, uh, everybody inside.
So he's got a, a love interest who, uh, is a homicide detective. She's up to her ears in work. So because Jake is an invest, a former investigative reporter, she asked him to dig into the background of the people in the bed and breakfast. Uh, when he starts doing that, he finds there are some. There had been some dark things going on at the bed and breakfast, which, uh, may have resulted in somebody blowing up the, the building.
Uh, it's originally thought to be a gas, gas explosion, but through his investigation, they found out that it could have been more than that. So that's the, that's the premise in a nutshell of the book. Uh, Jake discovers some secrets that, uh, hadn't been, uh, hadn't been apparent before. And, uh, so that's, uh, that's basically the premise of the book.
I might add too, that, uh, I'm working on another book, which is going to be coming out probably in the next couple of months. And I'm writing, I'm, uh, writing the story of a extreme ultra marathoner. She's the third Canadian woman to run across the four deserts, and, uh, she swam from Alcatraz to San Francisco, she's done all kinds of extreme sporting things, and, um, so it's her biography, it's going to be in her words, but, uh, I'm, I'm writing it for her, or with her, and, uh, so that'll be coming out in the next couple of months, it's called, uh, My Limitless Life, and the Jake Scott book is called The Secret Truth.
And they'll both be available on Amazon and at your local retailer or library by request.
[00:38:28] Marco Ciappelli: There you go. And, uh, everybody knows that in the notes, either YouTube video or the podcast, they can find all the link to your website and therefore to your books and Amazon, your bio, get in touch with you. Please don't leave a three star review saying it's good because Barry's not gonna like that But uh, you know, he's gonna make him think that's what's wrong with that No, I really enjoyed this conversation I hope the audience did and listen The one you describe about the biography sounds a really beautiful story If you ever want to come back and talk about that, you can Want to bring the, the, the athlete as well.
That would be a great conversation. Um, I'm going to make a note about that because we can have a three, uh, three people podcast and, uh, and have a good time. I think that sounds good. Sounds like a great story. So everybody stay tuned. Barry, uh, good luck with the new book. Thank you for your time and, uh, everybody subscribe, stay tuned and remember we're all made of stories, so we're just trying to share them.
Take care.