In a world where cybersecurity is becoming increasingly crucial, the voices and perspectives of women are essential in shaping the industry's future. At the recent RSA conference in 2024, Christina Stokes from ITSP Magazine sat down with Jessica A. Robinson, the founder of PurePoint International, to learn about her journey, the spiritual aspect of cybersecurity, and the challenges faced by CISOs in the ever-evolving landscape of security.
Guest: Jessica A. Robinson, Chair Emeritus, World Pulse [@WorldPulse]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-a-robinson-she-her-22740311/
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Host: Christina Stokes, Host, On Cyber & AI Podcast, Founder of Narito Cybersecurity
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/christina-stokes
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/xTinaStokes/
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Episode Notes
The Vision and Inception of PurePoint International
Jessica A. Robinson shared the inspiring story of how PurePoint International came to be - born out of a dream during a pilgrimage in India and Nepal. Her vision encompassed not only traditional cyber security but also holistic security, integrating psychological, emotional, and spiritual well-being into the security framework.
The Feminine Approach to Security
Central to PurePoint International's ethos is the feminine approach to security, focusing on collaboration, empathy, and inclusivity. Jessica emphasized the importance of balancing masculine and feminine values in the security space, acknowledging the unique perspectives and solutions that women bring to the table.
Spirituality and Ritual in Cyber Security
The conversation also focuses into the role of spirituality and ritual in cybersecurity. Jessica highlighted the significance of viewing work as a spiritual practice, incorporating rituals like meditation, intention setting, and energy release to maintain balance and well-being in high-stress environments.
Overcoming Burnout and Leading with Purpose
Burnout has become a prevalent issue in the cybersecurity industry, with professionals facing increasing pressure and expectations. Jessica emphasized the importance of self-care and leading with purpose, urging CISOs to prioritize their well-being to effectively lead their teams and organizations.
The Evolution of the CISO Role
The discussion also touched upon the evolving role of Chief Information Security Officers (CISOs) and the challenges they face in balancing technical expertise with strategic leadership. Jessica emphasized the need for broader organizational support and a shift in mindset to recognize the CISO as a critical business leader.
Looking Ahead: Empowering Women in Cyber Security
As more women enter the cybersecurity industry, there is a growing opportunity to bring diverse perspectives and solutions to the forefront. Jessica highlighted the importance of women stepping into leadership roles and driving change in the industry, emphasizing the need for support and recognition at all levels of the organization.
Jessica A. Robinson's insights shed light on the transformative power of a feminine approach to cybersecurity, the role of spirituality in well-being, and the challenges and opportunities facing CISOs in today's security landscape. As the industry continues to evolve, empowering women in cybersecurity is not just a necessity but a strategic advantage in creating a safer and more inclusive digital world.
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Empowering Women in Cyber Security and The Spiritual Aspect Of Cybersecurity | An RSA Conference 2024 Conversation with Jessica A. Robinson and Christina Stokes | On Location Coverage with Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli
Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00] Christina Stokes: Hi, I'm Christina Stokes with ITSP Magazine, and we are here today at the RSA conference, 2024. Um, I have Jessica A. Robinson helping us learn more about the experience here at RSA. And we're going to talk about PurePoint International. Jessica gave a wonderful presentation yesterday here at RSA, which was super beneficial to CISOs all around.
Um, and I'd love to learn more about that. Jessica, can you tell us a little bit more about PurePoint International and the history and its inception?
[00:00:35] Jessica Robinson: Yeah, absolutely. So, um, PurePoint International was born, uh, it's actually quite a long story, but in the end, I, I had a dream, um, as I was on a pilgrimage in India and Nepal, and I was really interested in thinking about what I was going to do next at, um, at that point in my journey.
And, um, what I knew was that I wanted to focus on security, I knew that I wanted to focus on, um, other areas that I was really passionate about that I didn't focus on when I was in the corporate world. So, for example, technology. And I started off as a, uh, information, or as a computer science major in undergrad.
I was also interested in, uh, working with women. I was interested in working, continuing work with the, the corporate world, but also in working with underrepresented organizations and people. And so I, um, I thought that I would just apply for different roles that I thought could be a good fit. Um, when I started to apply, I found some that I thought were good, but, you know, I wasn't a right fit for that role.
But then I, it was hard for me to find other roles that really, that really made me feel like this was what I really wanted to do as part of this next step in my journey. And so in the end, I just thought, okay, well, maybe I'll create the role that I want. Um, but if I created the role that I wanted, then I would have to create the company that I wanted to work for.
And so, and that became the birth of PurePoint International and the work that we do today. Um, really, um, at the intersection of cyber security, uh, but also really this holistic view of security. So really, um, embedding, uh, psychological, emotional, and spiritual security as well, as well as physical in this work that we do both in the corporate world, with non profits, with people who, um, are high profile, um, and other groups around the world.
Tell me a little bit more about the spiritual
[00:02:21] Christina Stokes: aspect of the work that you're doing.
[00:02:23] Jessica Robinson: Yeah, and so this really comes up a lot with people who are more high profile. So we work with a lot of individuals who are, um, running for public office, particularly those that are underrepresented. And so for, um, for when they think about security, they really need and are thinking about a holistic view of security.
It isn't necessarily just physical or, or digital. Um, for them, they, when we think about what it really means to be safe, that's something that's internal. It isn't always external. And so when you're in a public space and you have maybe some incident that you've experienced, maybe someone came up to you and grabbed you or maybe someone came up to you and slurred something at you or said something to you, at the end of the day, you still need to be able to pull yourself together to be able to go give a speech or to be able to, to go lead your team or to do something like that.
And so Um, so for us, it's really about how do we create a, uh, well, how do we create conscious security in every moment? And so we spend time with people and helping them to do that. So we've created a process that really helps individuals in thinking about how to do that. Um, and so we've worked with individuals, but also organizations to think about how they can best implement that within their organization and work with, um, either their clients or their teams.
[00:03:35] Christina Stokes: That's amazing to hear and I think that's incredibly important. It's an aspect. I don't think we always think about sometimes
[00:03:41] Jessica Robinson: Yeah, no, I mean, it's a very human centered aspect And I think that I mean part of the reason and that was also part of this dream and this vision that I had Was that we needed to create a space or needed to create there needed to be a security company That really at the end centered women and centered a different a center a what I call a feminine approach to security You Um, and needed to be grounded in that versus a masculine approach to security.
And it's not that we don't need a masculine approach because we do like the military represents a masculine approach. We do need the military. We do need other aspects of security. But what we didn't have and what we don't have in a in a really kind of universal way is a feminine approach to security.
And so that would that that is what we've really been birthing over this past decade and Um, and it's been beautiful to see it come to life in many different manifestations and many different ways and also to see men play a role in this as well and really be a wonderful partner in helping to birth this.
[00:04:35] Christina Stokes: It's always amazing to have allies for women in cyber security. Yeah. Um, tell me a little bit more about that feminine approach.
[00:04:43] Jessica Robinson: Yeah. So this feminine approach is really um, centering a different way of looking at security. So it is grounded in spirituality. It is grounded in ritual. It is grounded in, um, in creating and thinking about how we create a safe space where there's a beautiful Cherokee proverb that goes, uh, a woman should be able to walk and travel the world and be safe, and it's the masculine that helps her to be safe.
And so wherever she goes, and I'm constantly traveling around the world now, so, you know, what does it mean for me to be safe and feel safe wherever I go? And if we extrapolate that into a family, if we extrapolate that into a community. We extrapolate that into a company. We extrapolate that into, uh, even larger than a state, a nation.
You know, what does, what does that really mean? And part of that also means changing our, our consciousness in many ways as humans in terms of how we connect and interact with each other. Um, it means bringing in what we do see as kind of more, uh, feminine values of leadership in terms of, you know, what's collaboration and empathy.
Um, but it's also about helping to bring in solutions. Um, uh, that are, that in many cases, women are bringing to the table to be able to help really solve a lot of the concerns that we have. Um, a lot of times it means when we have major issues that need to be solved, that we're bringing in the underrepresented voices to solve them, right?
That we're not trying to solve problems that we think will work for our communities that we're actually not in. Yes. And so, we, so it's really, it's really very much a different way of looking at it. And, um, it's something that I think in a very You know, patriarchal world isn't something that, um, is looked upon as something that's even possible, even particularly in corporations, but, uh, but I absolutely believe it is possible and I also believe it's possible for prime ministers and presidents and generals to lead this way.
[00:06:34] Christina Stokes: Absolutely. For somebody that's coming into this new and hasn't really approached security from that spiritual perspective, what are some rituals that are Maybe easy for somebody to do or something to start doing in order to build that up. Yeah
[00:06:53] Jessica Robinson: Well, I would just say in general if we just look at work as you know If you know and you don't have to be spiritual to even think about it this way But if we just look at work as a spiritual practice, you know, who are we coming in to serve every day?
Yeah How can we take a moment to begin our day in a way that as we look at our agenda and we're preparing for the Day that we go. Okay. I really want this meeting to go well So I'm going to, in a meditation or in a quiet time this morning, I'm going to, I'm going to sit here and just send a blessing for, um, for a wonderful conversation.
Or I'm going to send love to this individual. Or maybe I know someone, um, we had, I had a tough, I'm preparing for a really tough conversation, really thinking through, how do I want this conversation to go? And when we do these things, they are rituals, when we do them every day, it may become a practice. Um, it could be setting an intention.
Um, I, you know, I set the intention to come into this really difficult situation that I'm going to have with someone with an open heart, right? I come in, I set the intention to come into this, to this conversation to only listen and to not actually bring solutions. I mean, it's quite powerful when we actually pause and set an intention to do that, um, and then walk away and then come away from that.
And then next week in another conversation, actually come back with a solution, even if we feel we already have it. Yes. And then, um, and there are, there are many other ones that we can do, but I think that those are, those are, those are very accessible things that I think many leaders can just gravitate to.
Yeah. And again, it's, it's work as a spiritual practice. So it's something that we do multiple times a day, every day.
[00:08:23] Christina Stokes: Yes. I think that's key. Cause I think sometimes, you know, at work, we're in situations where maybe there's a conflict or there's some negative energy and we forget to kind of cleanse that.
[00:08:34] Jessica Robinson: Well, yeah, I mean, that's it too. I mean, I mean, so we, uh, I lead a meditation every single morning that is a cleansing and a releasing meditation. Um, and we talk about, um, what it means to heal ourselves and what it means to be able to even, you know, deal with burnout. We hold onto so much energy. Yeah. So if we just even take a, take even five minutes to just release energy from our, from our body at the end of the day, or from our, from our, from our mind, from our spirit at the end of the day, that helps us physically.
You know, that helps our heart, like literally our heart. It helps our mind to be able to just function and to be able to then give a piece of ourselves to our family or whoever it is that we're going home to, or that we're serving at the end of the day. And, um, and it's incredibly important. And I can't even, I can't even overstate, um, I've been meditating for a couple of decades, but I can't even stay in the daily meditation alone because we do it as a community.
And when you do it as a community, it's much more powerful than just doing it alone. So when you do it as a community, it's, it's been, I can't even say how powerful it has been for us to do this every day and how my life has changed over the past three years, three and a half years of doing this daily as part of this community.
Um, how much healthier I am. Um, I rarely get sick, um, because I truly believe that when I get sick, all I have to do is, when I feel it coming out, all I have to do is release that energy. That's the power of our mind as well. Um, and so it's, it's really, it's really, it's really incredible in multiple ways.
[00:10:06] Christina Stokes: That, that is awesome. I know a lot of leaders who want to serve, and they come into cyber security, and, you know, a lot of us have the intention of keeping others safe. So, with these leaders that are coming in and wanting to serve, I think sometimes they forget to focus on themselves a little bit. So I think this is incredibly important because that can lead to burnout, which you spoke about yesterday in your presentation.
Um, do you want to tell us a little bit more about what you were discussing at your presentation yesterday? There were so many amazing points. There were so many strategies, so many highlights. And I was sitting in the audience just really trying to absorb everything that you were telling the audience because there are so many different things that I think we do forget.
Burnout has become an issue in the industry. I read recently that there are many cybersecurity professionals looking at leaving the industry and These are great professionals. They're very talented They're highly skilled and it would be a shame to lose them and have them leave the industry because of burnout Especially with with the CISOs, but tell us first a little bit more about that presentation
[00:11:22] Jessica Robinson: Yeah, absolutely.
So the presentation itself was a continuation from a presentation that we did, that I did last year. Last year it was called the fearless cybersecurity leader and future CISO. This one was now you're in a role, the fearless CISO. And so it was really about what does it mean to be in that, you know, that kind of first assignment or maybe second assignment as a CISO.
And what does it really mean to be successful? Absolutely. And so I invited my partner, Dan Garecki to come in. And so we were, we did a, we did a co presentation. And, um, a couple things that we focused on was what does it mean to be fearless. And I did share, uh, an intimate story of a time where I was going through one of my toughest CISO assignments and I was shaking.
And I, there, I, this would happen multiple times a day through this, like, nine month period where I would just, just start shaking. And, you know, I would be in meetings, I would be, you know, it didn't matter where I was, I would, I would just visibly start shaking. And so I had to be able to learn how to calm my body.
And even at this moment, for 30 minutes in the morning on my way to work, I was meditating. So I was using that throughout the day, meditation, to also just calm my body. But, um, one of the things that I learned, I think, in that, um, and I was only able to learn it after I left the role, and actually a few years after I left the role, about why it was that that was so hard in some ways.
Um, and I think that was maybe one of the, also the keys that, um, that I think is what, also what it means to be a successful CISO. Um, and this is what I shared with them is, I learned that I was, that I was always, because I was so, I was in service to the cybersecurity program, but in many cases, even more so, I was in service to the CISO role itself because as a consulting CISO, I'm always thinking about that CISO that's going to actually come in behind me and be that FTE in that role.
And so, I'm always thinking, am I setting this person up for success? Will this person be presenting to the board? You know, is this an environment where this person can thrive in this role? Will this role be able to thrive after I'm gone? And, um, and so, I, um, one of the things that I, that I really focused on was, and allowed myself the space to do, was to have the courage to be disliked.
Have the courage to constantly state the unpopular opinion. You know, constantly be that person that was always doing that. Um, and, um, and it was the, the loneliest time ever in my career. Um, and that was probably why I was always shaking. You know, because I was, I was so afraid all the time just to speak what to me was truth.
Um, and I, many people, many CISOs in our presentation will say it's about speaking truth to power, and it's true. Um, and so I wanted to let the CISOs know that, you know, what I've learned in hindsight was that I, I really think you're doing the role the right way when you do feel very lonely. Yes. You know, I do think you're doing the right thing when you, when you are feeling very, very stressed.
I think you, I think in many cases you're, you're, you're doing the role the right way, but you also have to find the outlet. Right. Right. You have to find the way. And so for me, for me, meditation was that, you know, and again, it wasn't just something I did, um, A couple of times a week. I did it every morning on the way to work.
Um, because I had a car that took me into the office every single day. So I, and that was a 45 versus 35 minute ride. So I was meditating the entire right there. But then when I needed to, when I could feel myself starting to shake during the day, I would have to, I would use meditation to, um, or at least even if I was at my desk, I would just, I would just stop in that moment and really start to take deep breaths.
So maybe some deep breathing. As well, um, um, as, as well as some meditation. Um, and there, one of the things that I tell, tell the group that I'm in, um, is that there are so many ways that you can release energy that's in your body. Cause that's what that is. I mean, it's just, it's energy that has, that's trying to release, right?
Right. Right. It's trying to figure out where to go. And so you just have to be able to channel that energy in a way that allows it to leave the body.
[00:15:10] Christina Stokes: So, yeah, that's important. I do feel that the leader sets the tone. For the team, and if the leader's energy is off or negative, like that, that can definitely impact the team.
[00:15:22] Jessica Robinson: Absolutely, absolutely. And one of the things that I also said to the CISOs, because it's, you know, it's been true in my experience, is you have to remember that you're always leading, right? Even, even with senior management there, even those leaders that are at a higher level than you, you're leading them.
That's why they've hired you. You're there to lead, lead them when it comes to cyber security. And so you, they can lead you when it comes to the business, but you're always leading them. You're constantly leading in a 360 degree way. So even when you feel like you want to go to them for support, you kind of have to remember, would you go, how would you approach someone else on your team that's reporting to you?
You're always leading everyone. And, um, and I, I, I think that that, I think that that's an important thing for people to keep in mind. And so, um, uh, when you, when you look at the team that way and you look at, um, and you also think about the impact that you have on other people. Other people because if, you know, if you show up and, you know, depending on how you show up, that's going to, that's gonna impact how the senior management responds to you.
Absolutely. So you, you're gonna have, you're gonna always wanna show up in a particular way that's going to inspire confidence. Mm-Hmm. , right. So, yeah.
[00:16:23] Christina Stokes: Yeah. I think a lot of women, especially not especially women leaders and any woman really, um, I think it's selfish to take time for themselves. Oh yeah. And you know, it's, and that can be hard because you're trying to balance everything.
But it really isn't that selfish to take a moment for yourself. Right. Because of the impact that you have on your team, the impact you have on your family, um, you know, at home or in the professional space. So I don't think it's something that is selfish. It's something that's incredibly important because taking care of yourself Yeah.
means that you are able to take care of others, right? Absolutely. So it's, you know, making sure that your cup is full Absolutely. before you can go. You know, you can't fill from an empty cup. You can't pour from an empty cup. So that's incredibly important.
[00:17:08] Jessica Robinson: Absolutely. I think that's so incredibly important.
And, you know, you could also think about it, like, would you, how do you want to show up for a meeting with the CEO? Like, do you want to show up where you're kind of feeling a little frantic or, and because you didn't take time to just sit down and relax and take care of yourself. Um, and if you did, then how would that CEO respond?
I mean, And I, and I think about that because I remember conversations I would have with, uh, others, uh, another security leader, I'm thinking of one particular situation, and he wanted to send a CEO1 message, and I said, no, we have to send this message. We have to send her a reassuring message. I mean, we know we have things to fix, and we can be 100 percent honest about that, and, and we are going to fix that.
So you can't, you know, you always have to be careful in how you deliver a message. But, you know, we're, but, you know, we're the messenger, you know, too. So, you know, our, our body is the message, you know, as, you know, as much as our words are the message.
[00:17:57] Christina Stokes: Tell me a little bit more about, um, what you're seeing for PurePoint International in, in the future as more women are coming into the industry.
[00:18:08] Jessica Robinson: Yeah, yeah, you know, I think, um, you know, I think it's an amazing time to be seeing more women coming into the industry. Um, I think that it's helping, um, it's helping to bring a different perspective into the organization or into the, into the industry itself, which I think is really important. Um, and, um, I think that what's also, what also I'm really excited to see is how many people are already and are wanting to step into leadership roles.
Yes. Um, I have a lot of conversations with women who You know, I've said that they have, uh, they, you know, they've waited a while and they haven't really stepped into a leadership role because they wanted to make sure that they were ready, but now they're feeling like they're ready. And I think that that's actually really exciting, um, particularly with so much that's going on right now with, with burnout, um, with the CISO role and, um, a lot of, a lot of people wanting to leave the CISO role and not wanting to be in the role.
And I think that we need great leaders. Um, and I think, you know, when we have an industry of people that are experiencing burnout, when we have Um, leaders like CISOs around, it's not just the United States, it's around the globe as I travel globally. Um, the, this, the, the concerns with this role are global issues.
Um, these, these are, these are national and global security issues, right? When the talent is having a lot of time just doing their job. Um, and I think this is an important thing for senior management to really understand as well. And, and part of this is also, I think, accountability on their end. Um, to really help to ensure that the, all the entire team in the global organization is really receiving this.
[00:19:39] Christina Stokes: Speaking of that CISO role, what are some of the challenges that CISOs are seeing and what can they do to help stay in that role and really dive in?
[00:19:51] Jessica Robinson: So I think for sure one of the biggest things is the regulation, um, you know, this accountability and liability around the CISO role itself, particularly in the United States.
Um, but I, but I think one of the biggest things that I'm seeing globally is the fact that the evolution of the CISO role itself. is moving so quickly that I think the rest of, like, the way, the way that, um, the rest of the organization and maybe senior management, the way that they view the role isn't happening, isn't occurring, that change isn't occurring at the same speed as the evolution of the actual CISO role, um, and so, um, for, for, for the rest of the business, um, to really see the role as a true business leader, and as a strategic advisor to the business and not a technical leader, In the business, and there are technical leaders under the CISO, but the CISO role itself is not a technical role.
Um, I think that that's one of the biggest concerns. I think, too, um, that the CISO is, is, is meant to know everything under security. I mean, at the end of the day, if the general counsels have outside counsel, um, supporting them. If, uh, CFOs are using accounting companies, you know, we have the big four here in the United States and around the globe.
Um, then there's no reason why C SHIELD shouldn't have advisories, advisory companies coming in to support them as well. Absolutely. And so I think there, there is a mindset that has to change and it starts with the senior management as well as at the board level around how we are giving the proper support to chief information security officers and their teams.
[00:21:12] Christina Stokes: Thank you Jessica for coming and talking to us today. We always love having you here at ITSP Magazine. Thank you. And thank you all for tuning in.