High-profile corporate leaders face digital risks that extend far beyond company networks, from personal email compromises to deepfake attacks. This episode explores how combining advanced technology, privacy safeguards, and concierge-level service creates an always-on shield for executives and their families.
In today’s connected world, corporate executives and board members live in a digital space that extends far beyond their company’s networks. Chris Pierson, CEO and Founder of BlackCloak, explains how protecting leaders requires more than traditional enterprise security—it calls for securing their personal digital lives.
The threat landscape for high-profile individuals includes everything from compromised personal email accounts and hacked home networks to deepfake attacks and targeted identity theft. These risks not only threaten the individual but can cause significant financial and reputational damage to the companies they represent.
BlackCloak addresses this by providing digital executive protection—securing executives, their families, and their homes with a blend of technology, privacy measures, and concierge-level service. This includes monitoring and removing data from brokers, detecting threats in the dark web, safeguarding home IoT devices, and even protecting yachts, jets, and vacation properties. The company also acts as an on-call cybersecurity and privacy advisor 24/7/365.
A key component is the BlackCloak app, which serves as a security dashboard and communication hub. Through it, clients can see privacy risks being addressed in real time, receive alerts, and contact their dedicated concierge team. Behind the scenes, deception networks and active monitoring provide an extra layer of defense.
Pierson highlights the growing convergence of cyber and physical threats. High-profile attacks and incidents in recent years underscore the importance of integrating cybersecurity with physical security, particularly for executives who are constantly in the public eye. With AI accelerating both the speed and sophistication of attacks, organizations need to consider a holistic approach—protecting not only networks and devices but the digital personas of their people.
Ultimately, Pierson sees this as part of a broader shift toward making security a lifestyle component for executives, much like comprehensive healthcare benefits. It’s about creating an always-on layer of protection that travels with them—whether they’re in the office, at home, or halfway around the world.
Learn more about BlackCloak: https://itspm.ag/itspbcweb
Note: This story contains promotional content.Learn more.
Guest:
Chris Pierson, Founder & CEO, BlackCloak | https://www.linkedin.com/in/drchristopherpierson/
Hosts:
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine | Website: https://www.seanmartin.com
Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine | Website: https://www.marcociappelli.com
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Keywords: Black Hat 2025, zero trust security, cybersecurity conference, ThreatLocker, default deny strategy, endpoint protection, application control, threat detection, enterprise security, network security, cybersecurity solutions, security automation, malware prevention, cyber threats, information security, security platform, Black Hat USA, cybersecurity innovation, managed detection response, security operations
[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: we are rolling. We are rolling. Can you imagine that we are rolling? We're still saying we are rolling. Like if there is a tape that goes. But we say that, I don't know what else we would say though, right? I don't know. We digitalizing data. I don't know. Binary. Yeah. At some point in
[00:00:15] Chris Pierson: time, at some point in time when AI takes over this whole thing, rolling goes away, right?
[00:00:18] Chris Pierson: Yeah. Just like memories.
[00:00:19] Marco Ciappelli: I don't know. I think there's still this idea of the rolling that's gonna stick. Yeah. Uh, you know, technology goes fast. Yeah. But we are in person. I know. Again, thank God. And it's good to see you black guy. It's great seeing you guys. See, great seeing you guys. Yeah. Chris, Chris Beon with, uh, Blacklock.
[00:00:38] Marco Ciappelli: We've been talking about these adventures of yours for a long time, even when it was still a dream. Yeah. And, uh, now it's been a few years, so, uh, I'm excited, glad to see you. Last year we had a conversation here. Black. Yes, we did black hat and fight for the sofas. Uh, we spoke at RSA conference. We spoke, we speak in between.
[00:00:58] Marco Ciappelli: We talked. [00:01:00] And, uh, stay up to date to what's going on with you and Black Clock, but from those that haven't heard what Black Clock is and don't know. Shame on you if you don't know. Who's Chris Pearson. Who is Chris and what's Black Cloak?
[00:01:14] Chris Pierson: Yeah, no, it's good. I mean, look, the CEO founder of Black Cloak, and you know, black Cloak is digital executive protection.
[00:01:21] Chris Pierson: We're protecting corporate executives, board members, that C-suite in their families and their personal lives, right? It's all about that extended attack surface that exists outside the four walls of the company, right? You can protect. Right. The networks, the email, the computers, the servers, whatever. This is all great and absolutely like some leading edge, leading edge, uh, stuff that's on the conference room show floor.
[00:01:45] Chris Pierson: But how do you think, and how does your adversary think about that, which is outside the four walls of Castle, the personal email of the CEO or their spouse, right? The kids gaming machines, the camera systems that are in those homes. The home [00:02:00] control systems, identity theft that is happening, deep fake attacks that are happening, those things that are outside the four walls of the company, that could impact you, the cso, the CSO, could impact your team, but really kind of from a financial perspective, are gonna impact those executives.
[00:02:16] Chris Pierson: From a reputational perspective, the executives are right. Intertwined with the company, so it's gonna come back to the company. Um, also those different really kind of like ride the lightning attacks from the home environment on in black folk stands there as a product with the concierge service to protect those executives on privacy, on cybersecurity, on their home network and on that concierge answering anything.
[00:02:41] Chris Pierson: On cyber and privacy 24 7, 365. Kind of the global remit there, the global audience there is what we're really adept at. We love nothing more than working with our champions, both CISOs and CSOs, and, uh, and a lot's changed in the past few months. Lots changed, but that's a little bit about us. At the end of the day, it really is about how do we [00:03:00] think about protecting the digital lives of your executives.
[00:03:03] Chris Pierson: That's what it's all about. Yep.
[00:03:04] Marco Ciappelli: Now, I love the concierge because it's a, it's a key word. So every time we talk, I, I really stop and pauses and think about that. Some people that are listening right now are watching us. They may think, why? Well, I thought the company would take care of that. Well, I mean, so yeah, let's explain why.
[00:03:25] Marco Ciappelli: So, yeah, hard to. Well that
[00:03:28] Chris Pierson: to happen actually. Yeah. I mean there, there are multiple reasons. I mean, first and foremost, you can't take enterprise grade equipment and put it inside the home of an executive No. And expect it to work, right? You're gonna block the kids on Netflix, you're block block Disney.
[00:03:41] Chris Pierson: You're gonna cause all holy hell there and all rest. It's a problem. Yes, it's a big problem. It's just not knocking work. Um, second is right, literally legal and privacy reasons. There has to be a shim, there has to be separation there. And, and we do this every single, right? Every single day this happens, right?
[00:03:56] Chris Pierson: Your company, Acme Bank, has healthcare for all the employees [00:04:00] it picked, I don't know, right? United Healthcare great for the executive team. They might have the Mayo Clinic, they might have air medical rescue, they might have air medical transport. All the rest of these to follow those executives around the globe, they just lead massively different lives.
[00:04:12] Chris Pierson: And so the company selected something on behalf of the employees. In many cases, the company pays a hundred percent for it, and the employees and their families benefit. From that and vis-a-vis the company benefits too, but the company's not providing the healthcare, right? They are not the ones there providing the doctor, right?
[00:04:28] Chris Pierson: That's provided through the third party. And then third, really, at the end of the day, you're talking about a very, very special subset and segment of the population of your company that is out there. They're on the about a page, they're on the leadership page. They're out in the community that needs special protection across all these different areas.
[00:04:46] Chris Pierson: And it isn't something that the cybersecurity warrior is actually prepared for on the inside of the company. Um, but more so it is about the relationship. Black CLO and all of our cyber warriors have a relationship [00:05:00] with every single executive and family member from day one on and through their, their entire subscription.
[00:05:08] Chris Pierson: And that's what we love. We wanted it You're part,
[00:05:10] Marco Ciappelli: you're part of their life at that point. We are. They're advising Maybe they. I don't know. They have an idea yet. I, I, I want to redo the home theater. I want it to be connected. Everything is connected, of course. Uh, the toast talk is talking to me. Yep. The fridge is talking to me.
[00:05:26] Chris Pierson: Right. And in their cases, right, they're, they're, they're yachts, right? They're private jets. Yep. Right. Who's actually helping out there be their toys? Yeah. Really big, really big toys. Really big targets. And targets that actually will sometimes include multiple executives. Right. It could be their private right private residence on a, on a, uh, Caribbean island, and they host social functions.
[00:05:48] Chris Pierson: For those executives, those board members, other investors, and all the rest. So there's multiple angles and aspects to it. Yeah. But it really becomes, yeah, we've become part of their digital life. Yeah.
[00:05:57] Marco Ciappelli: And complexity right now, [00:06:00] life is complicated and complex technology. It helps in a lot of things, but it also makes things more complicated.
[00:06:09] Marco Ciappelli: You have to think wherever you are. Your phone, your yacht, if you have one, uh, anything. Even the places where you go, you know that your monitors somewhere, if you go to a show or you, you go in a car, cars are connected, are cameras looking at you in the car as well.
[00:06:29] Chris Pierson: And all those things. All those things are part of the attack surface.
[00:06:32] Chris Pierson: They're part of that vector. And it requires folks that are, I mean. You know, what our team is doing is focusing very much on this and this one threat, that threat to those people. They're the highest profile individuals at your company. Yeah. And so it becomes very, very specialized both in terms of knowledge, in terms of advice, in terms of guidance.
[00:06:51] Chris Pierson: And quite honestly, I mean, we're a product company. Yeah. Um, you know, our, our engineering team is unlike any other, and we are focused on making sure we're [00:07:00] building the next generation of products and technologies. And there, there is
[00:07:03] Marco Ciappelli: an app too, right?
[00:07:04] Chris Pierson: Oh yeah. Well, yeah. Our, our app. How
[00:07:05] Marco Ciappelli: that, how does that work?
[00:07:07] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, I mean, you start working with someone, the app is the hub of everything.
[00:07:12] Chris Pierson: The app is both, right? It's both a dashboard, so live, real time. They're able to see the data brokers that are being removed. They're able to see the deep web, dark web, so that's coming through. They're able to contact the concierge team.
[00:07:22] Chris Pierson: We're actually bright protecting the networks that they're on. We're protecting the devices that we're on actively. In many cases. The app, right on their computers is a deception network. So we actually have an entire honeypot that is there on their device. So this is really that entire holistic security and privacy protection that we're talking about.
[00:07:42] Chris Pierson: And so an app is necessary for that on a cell phone, tablet, computer, and, and really at the end of the day, we've been able to build it. And we have, we have three out of our, eight of our executive team members have certified information, privacy professional certifications. I, as, as you and I both right, was Chief Privacy Officer for one of the largest [00:08:00] banks in the world.
[00:08:00] Chris Pierson: Yeah. We build privacy into everything of what we're doing. But we have to have that platform to grow and build from and jump off of. And then it's the open source intelligence on top of that. So threat intelligence on top of that. It is the advice and guidance on top of that that makes everything come together.
[00:08:15] Chris Pierson: Yeah. And that's what's wonderful. And that's where the team, real people. Real interactions back to Right. Blackout real relationships. Yeah. And that's what makes us go further and faster. Yeah.
[00:08:27] Marco Ciappelli: And, and easy for them to use it. And don't be overwhelmed. It just run in the background. That's right. They trust you.
[00:08:34] Marco Ciappelli: They trust and search. Yep. And it works. Now, now we're gonna talk about something fun. Obviously this event is a way for you to connect with people. Yeah. Um, to, you know, sometimes as investors. Partners. Yeah. And all ecosystem that you have. Yeah. So any good conversation happening here?
[00:08:53] Chris Pierson: Yeah, I mean, you know, I have to say it's like, you know, so much different than other, [00:09:00] other events.
[00:09:00] Chris Pierson: It's like one of the big things that I personally love about Black Hat, you know, everyone walking find out. Well, no, it's the people, it's the relationships. Um, you know, yesterday said something like, I was standing for 14 hours on my Apple Watch. You know, I was meeting and greeting business meetings, separate side off meetings and all the rest, but seeing the people, real relationships, relationships over time.
[00:09:22] Chris Pierson: I love, as a former ciso, I love meeting and remeet and talking to people that I knew back on that side. I love meeting with investors, new investors, prospective business partners. We have a lot of folks that are there and, and quite honestly, I love hearing from the community on what are they thinking about?
[00:09:39] Chris Pierson: Yeah. What is next for them? Um, you know, we're hearing everything's got AI into it. You and I right now, we have ag agentic built into us in this podcast right now, I hope, right? Yeah, of course. It's, it's, you know, we, we want, we want that to be here, but I mean, like, this is the place to actually really seriously talk about noodle and diagram and draw on the back of a napkin those [00:10:00] ideas and the amount of information that we're gonna have coming outta this from just the talks and listening and the brain and mind.
[00:10:06] Chris Pierson: Share here is gonna be, you know, so impressive. Yeah. Um, uh, love every minute of it. Yeah. The relationships are what matter, and this is a great place to go foster those and grow and develop them.
[00:10:17] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And again, it's just too complex to just do everything yourself. Right. Especially if you're competing with other, in the industry, you're not doing a favor to our society or to our business.
[00:10:30] Marco Ciappelli: It's sharing information, for example.
[00:10:33] Chris Pierson: Well, I lo I I love that. And as you know, right, a big part of what you're doing is right, tech and society, the impact on technology, on society and all the rest. And look, the, you know, we love working with good people, fighting the good fight against the bad guys, period.
[00:10:48] Chris Pierson: And it doesn't matter how you're doing it. Different products, different services, all rest. Like, that's what really binds us together, that is that overall overarching mission. Um, I love that more than anything else. I also [00:11:00] do love the fact that, you know, really, you know, from last year, a lot has changed.
[00:11:05] Chris Pierson: You know, we have a great chief security officer following on the executive protection, physical security, open source intelligence, air medical rescue, kidnapping, ransom, right? Those folks that are responsible for that kinetic response or that protecting against kinetic, uh, threats. And we all know from right.
[00:11:24] Chris Pierson: Brian Thompson, the United Healthcare tragic shooting in December. We all saw the Minnesota killings of Congressmen, uh, uh, just as past May and then into, uh, last week's events over at Blackstone and, and the NFL and all the rest. And we're seeing that cycle continue to, to, to move forward. In some cases, there's that convergence between physical and cyber, and I'm actually really excited to see a few more chief security officers here.
[00:11:52] Chris Pierson: A few more people that have a remit of threat intelligence. A few companies and partners here that started out in that EP space and are [00:12:00] growing. And that's what I love. I love the new challenges, the new horizons, the new growth Yeah. That we're seeing and being able to talk about it and work with others on it here.
[00:12:09] Chris Pierson: Yeah. Um, that's a, that's a, that's actually a, a good change this year here. A few more CSOs, walk in the hallways, few more, uh, protective mission, uh, you know, so to speak. Conversations that we're having.
[00:12:21] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. 'cause the, the. The border, the line is in the sand. It wasn't already in the sand. Yeah. And now it's been washed out.
[00:12:28] Marco Ciappelli: It's not there anymore. Right. But I think life, online, life, it real, it's all connected.
[00:12:34] Chris Pierson: I mean, the amount of information that's out there from an open source intelligence on data broker websites or you know, other different search and all the. That is showing to be the impetus in kind of stage one and two for many different types of who are you gonna target, how are you gonna target them, how are you spreading out the about US leadership page?
[00:12:50] Chris Pierson: Yes. It starts there and then goes, yeah, but we're seeing the vitriol and the fervor that that negative fervor on the internet, social media spill over [00:13:00] into, right. That that sphere of Right real live action happening. And I think there's a place for both things. I think this line of the sand is gone. I think convergence is there.
[00:13:11] Chris Pierson: I think artificial intelligence and the ability for adversaries at a right, really baseline level, right? This is available to everyone. It's
[00:13:22] Marco Ciappelli: really easy. Yeah, yeah. Well,
[00:13:23] Chris Pierson: it's massively easy. Something that would've taken an army, you know, 10 people or whatever, doing threat intelligence research on who the person is, where they are about their family, about the this, about the whatever.
[00:13:33] Chris Pierson: All that can be now aggregated in. So we're being seeing faster speed to threats. Seeing faster speed to action, both digitally and physically than I think we've ever seen before. And, and AI is playing a role in that for the attacker. I will tell you. I mean, absolutely. Artificial intelligence is playing a role in that as a defender.
[00:13:53] Chris Pierson: Yeah, exactly. As someone who's trying to get out in front of it, and I think they're gonna be monumental gains that we can make from that.
[00:13:59] Marco Ciappelli: [00:14:00] Well, that's so fun. Let's talk in the last five minutes we have. Yeah. Hi Sean. You gave me five minutes. Let's jump into the future. Put your future thinking cap on.
[00:14:10] Marco Ciappelli: 'cause I love to do this, the winning lottery numbers, so Yeah. Well maybe if you can see the future they foresee the way I I wish you do. Maybe there is a lottery number.
[00:14:19] Chris Pierson: Yeah,
[00:14:20] Marco Ciappelli: no, I'm talking about, come on. So everybody can use ai. A year ago we couldn't even have this conversation. Our eyes is making movies where actually they talk.
[00:14:30] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Movie industry. It's kind of freaking out a little bit here. Um, jobs are changing the concept of identity, the concept of privacy to go from, you know, the AI that you use to make movies actually into stealing your identity. Be you. Yeah. Um, where are we going with this? I mean, do we need to freak out a little bit?
[00:14:55] Marco Ciappelli: Dystopia, utopia. Are we gonna prevail? [00:15:00] Yeah. You know, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna ask you again next year and have you accountable. Yeah. You can even think about five years from now, 10 years that I don't care. Like where are we going with our society in this?
[00:15:10] Chris Pierson: Yeah, well, you know, broader society and it, it is one of those interest look, um, identity, right?
[00:15:15] Chris Pierson: You are, you is right. Migrating is changing, is progressing at a faster clip than ever. Right. A lot of this spurred on in the, in the early 2001 post nine 11, in terms of know your customer taking the Bank Secrecy Act of 1980s and nineties in terms of tracking down right mafia and all the rest, and there moving it into more hard line.
[00:15:39] Chris Pierson: Know your customer, which every financial institution and then beyond that, right? Your cable company, all utilities, all rest. Knowing who people are, um, now into a right, who are you improving, being proven in live, real time on each and every transaction? I think this notion of identity is right, changing, progressing, and moving very, [00:16:00] very quickly.
[00:16:00] Chris Pierson: Artificial intelligence plays a role in that, and I think we're gonna continue to see that in one year, in three years, in five years span, but it's gonna become really a digital identity. It's the central crux of everything we do, that digital persona. Um, I think we're gonna continue to see that as a result.
[00:16:17] Chris Pierson: I think attacks on your digital identity, attacks on you, your name, your likeness, all the rest are gonna continue. We're gonna see more in the social media sphere. We're gonna see more in the corporate sphere, not just talking in terms of like deep face. I think that is a part that is here and will be with us into the future, but we're gonna continue to see that role that NA play, you know, just a bigger role.
[00:16:39] Chris Pierson: More so in the corporate realm as well as personal realm and really almost like the, uh, almost like the movie where it's like severance, where it's like kind of the, both the, the work life versus the personal life where you have the separation. We're not seeing that. Mm-hmm. Right. Remote work is here to stay people's personas in terms of who they are.
[00:16:55] Chris Pierson: It's just intertwined in intermixed. I think that we're gonna continue to need to see and think [00:17:00] about that. How do we protect the environment? How do we protect our environment? Because we have to protect not only the data, the machines, the networks, all rest, but really we have to protect each one of the individual beyond executive protection.
[00:17:14] Chris Pierson: Right? Beyond digital. Yeah. I'm talking more. We're talking about how do you protect. Every single person that is there at your company and their digital persona we've seen in terms of the hiring of folks that are not Right, not who you thought they were. Yeah. And you see these server farms built up with 20 different, just saw a picture of 20 different laptops and multiple different, uh, logins to different corporations.
[00:17:36] Chris Pierson: I mean, we are there at that point in time where that relationship, where that identity is becoming more important, I think that's gonna grow in terms of complexity. I think in terms of attacks and things that we have to be thinking about, I think the convergence of physical and cyber is a topic that we really have to get on, right?
[00:17:53] Chris Pierson: Yes, we're gonna be remote. Yes, we're gonna have that digital presence, but at the end of the day, best business is done. Handshake, handshake, face [00:18:00] to face, and growing that relationship. And I think that we're gonna continue to see that grow. And we're gonna really have to figure out, right, those cyber attacks moving into the physical realm, physical realm, moving into cyber or taking advantage.
[00:18:13] Chris Pierson: I just saw, you know, this interesting video, uh, from a, um, from another country of, you know, once again tourists walking through, person putting up the, uh, RF scanner to the back area where the wallet is. And right. Sucking in the card information and the information there. I mean, once again, this, uh, physical attack perpetrating or progressing with a cyber attack, progressing with a fraud and all the rest.
[00:18:34] Chris Pierson: Yeah. These, there's convergence there. And I think that the companies that think about this in terms of how do we. Let's stitch all this together and actually focus on the threat story, not individual items, but that entire story from start to finish are gonna be the ones that win. They're the ones that succeed.
[00:18:51] Chris Pierson: They're the ones that are able to bring that vision and bring those solutions to market. Much better and much sooner than others. But I mean, it's that whole, it's that [00:19:00] whole picture and it is that first mile and it's that last mile that we're gonna have to dig and own.
[00:19:06] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And I, and I think to wrap this for what you said, is that the 365 24 7, yeah.
[00:19:14] Marco Ciappelli: There is not that time where I, I close the door, I'm in my house, I'm cool. I'm safe now. Now it is. You have the computer, you can't unplug it anymore. It's, you're always on. And so that security that follows you. Yep. It become, it's not even like, I think the perception is not even that is security that came from outside.
[00:19:36] Marco Ciappelli: It's such a, a security that is part of our lifestyle.
[00:19:40] Chris Pierson: I think. I think that you're right. I think that, I think that it's one of those things where. You're looking at a whole human approach. Yeah. Right. And, and we could just go to healthcare for a second. Employees who have gym membership access for 20 bucks a month or whatever.
[00:19:56] Chris Pierson: Right. And employees that have access to the latest, you [00:20:00] know, phone app there, you can have a televisit employees that have access to, you know, remote pharmacy and all the rest road that they have. Mental health services that you have access to all those things. You know, making sure that you have the whole employee doing well mentally, physically, all the rest of this up is gonna net a value and benefit back into the company.
[00:20:18] Chris Pierson: And I think same thing in terms of the digital persona. Mm-hmm. I think we're gonna have to really, really shift this notion of the, like the castle metaphor just isn't gonna work anymore. Yeah. Right. Exactly. It really isn't gonna work. And, and I don't think it's been working for a while. Right. Obviously it's our business to, to be there.
[00:20:33] Chris Pierson: But it, but it isn't. And I think that when you think about three years and five years, ow there is a convergence. There's a different way of thinking about things. The digital identity is going to be penultimate, and we're gonna have to really, really think carefully about how do we actually stitch a story of protection awareness.
[00:20:49] Chris Pierson: And reaction and response altogether from 0.1 all the way to that end result and then repeating it. Um, I don't know. I'd say this, it is a massively fascinating area to [00:21:00] be in, in terms of tip of the spear cyber and privacy bank. Now, I sucked into
[00:21:04] Marco Ciappelli: that, like looking into the
[00:21:05] Chris Pierson: future. Yeah, and, and what's cool about it is this, is that, you know, it's just at a think tank a few weeks ago.
[00:21:10] Chris Pierson: And, uh, everyone's, you know, it seems like the kinda, the preconceived notions we're on a well, we're locking ourselves in terms of what we think a or what AI is doing right now and what therefore what we think it can do in the future. And right now, that future of 18 months from now, 24 months from now, I don't know, is that any of us can actually predict what is gonna be, I know because it is so rapidly changing.
[00:21:32] Chris Pierson: Each and every day. It is unbelievable. I think that's what's exciting and what's cool about this industry, I think it's exciting about what we can use from a defensive posture in some cases, right? US government on the offensive side, but I mean, we know cyber criminals and nation states are also there thinking some of the same things too.
[00:21:48] Chris Pierson: Mm-hmm. Uh, I just see infinite upside and opportunity in terms of how do we tackle this and how do we tackle it together, you know, here as a part of community.
[00:21:57] Marco Ciappelli: I love it. Great conversation Chris. [00:22:00] If everybody got inspired to learn a little bit more about what Chris been doing is doing and will be doing, uh, you can check out a black clock.io black.
[00:22:10] Marco Ciappelli: You can come on ITSP magazine. It's been a sponsor of us and we're many, many stories that we have shared and that this one comes to you from, uh, black Hat 2025 here in Las Vegas. Chris was great to see you absolutely always to the next one and everybody, stay tuned. Follow us on ITSP magazine. Uh, LinkedIn website, everywhere.
[00:22:32] Marco Ciappelli: And, uh, there'll be many more, many more conversations from, uh, coverage. So take care.