In this episode recorded live at RSAC, Luigi Martino from the University of Florence and Luca Tagliaretti from the European Cybersecurity Competence Centre explore how international collaboration, regulation, and innovation intersect to shape the future of cybersecurity. Their conversation highlights the need for community-driven strategies that balance technological advancement with ethical responsibility and global cooperation.
At RSAC Conference 2025 in San Francisco, the message is clear: cybersecurity must be a shared endeavor—across nations, disciplines, and sectors. In this episode, Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin welcome two distinguished voices from Italy who are helping shape this collective path forward: Luigi Martino, Director of the Center for Cybersecurity and International Relations Studies at the University of Florence, and Luca Tagliaretti, Executive Director of the European Cybersecurity Competence Centre (ECCC).
Cybersecurity as a Multinational, Multidimensional Effort
Luigi Martino, who also holds roles at the University of Bologna and Khalifa University in Abu Dhabi, underscores the growing global awareness that cybersecurity is no longer a niche concern—it’s embedded in everything, from space to artificial intelligence. He emphasizes that cyber cannot be treated in isolation and must be considered alongside advancements in quantum technologies, AI, and the systems that govern our modern society.
For Luca Tagliaretti, leading the EU’s newly autonomous cybersecurity body, this interconnected view plays out through policy and community-building. The ECCC’s role spans everything from shaping long-term cybersecurity strategies across Europe to investing in innovation and skilling up the current workforce. He describes this as a community-first mission—building cohesion not just across EU member states, but eventually through global alignment.
Regulation: Guardrail or Roadblock?
A major theme discussed is the role of regulation in fostering or hindering innovation. Both guests agree that thoughtful regulation—especially in AI—is not the enemy of progress. Rather, it can be a mechanism for building trust, ensuring ethical use, and creating market conditions where all players, not just the biggest, can thrive. Bureaucracy, not regulation itself, is called out as the more significant challenge—particularly when public institutions aren’t equipped to implement modern governance.
What They’re Taking Home from RSAC
Asked what they’ll bring back from the conference, Luca points to the “sense of unity”—the opportunity to build on shared knowledge and collaborate across borders. Luigi highlights the spirit of open innovation and trust that defines the RSAC community: a willingness to share, experiment, and move forward together.
Both perspectives offer a powerful reminder—cybersecurity isn’t just about defending systems, it’s about building connections.
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Guest:s
Luigi Martino, Principal Research Scientist at Khalifa University and Head at the Center for Cyber Security and International Relations Studies | https://www.linkedin.com/in/luigi-martino-07515364/
Luca Tagliaretti, Executive Director at ECCC | https://www.linkedin.com/in/luca-tagliaretti-564a703/
Hosts:
Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine | Website: https://www.seanmartin.com
Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine | Website: https://www.marcociappelli.com
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Resources
Learn more and catch more stories from RSA Conference 2025 coverage: https://www.itspmagazine.com/rsa-conference-usa-2025-rsac-san-francisco-usa-cybersecurity-event-infosec-conference-coverage
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KEYWORDS
marco ciappelli, sean martin, luigi martino, luca tagliaretti, rsac 2025, cybersecurity, regulation, ai, quantum, collaboration, event coverage, on location, conference
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From Space to AI: Expanding the Cybersecurity Conversation with Cyber Unity | An RSAC Conference 2025 Conversation with Luigi Martino and Luca Tagliaretti | On Location Coverage with Sean Martin and Marco Ciappelli
Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00]
Marco Ciappelli: Marco, Sean. We made it. We made it. And I actually, I hope you took your lessons. Did, did, did you? Oh yeah. You learn Italian already? Good. I learn Italian. Yes, because, you know, I'm still like on the verge. If I want to have this in Italian or English, we
Sean Martin: should do it in Italian. I'll just sit here and No, no, we,
Marco Ciappelli: we agree that the crowd is not gonna be as big, so we're rather go with a, with a language that most people speak.
Sean Martin: Okay.
Marco Ciappelli: So you're lucky
Sean Martin: Dutch,
Marco Ciappelli: you're lucky. Speak Dutch.
Sean Martin: Well, Sean, we're here. We are in San Francisco, RSAC conference. Um, thrilled. To be here. Great conversation, great community. That's the theme this year, right? Um, a lot's going on in the world,
Marco Ciappelli: lot's going on in
Sean Martin: the world, A lot, a lot of change happening, a lot of tension happening, a lot of innovation happening, and thankfully a lot of people coming together to kind of make sense of all that, right?
Yeah,
Marco Ciappelli: absolutely. So this year, a theme here at RSA conference, many voices, one community, and [00:01:00] uh, and I think that. What I've seen so far, and we're just getting started, is that there is people from every part of the world.
Sean Martin: Yep.
Marco Ciappelli: Which is a great thing. It opened up our minds and opened the conversations to a better understanding of how we can all live together, which we love.
We like the, we like
Sean Martin: that global view.
Marco Ciappelli: Right. The global view. So, um, from Italy, I brought some Italian friends. There you go. To start, so we got Luigi Martino, which is from the University of Florence. And we had the opportunity to know each other for a long time. Yeah. And, uh, you brought a friend, so very excited to have Luca as well here.
Thank you. Thank you. And I'll say, Sean, let's just let them introduce themselves.
Sean Martin: Yeah. Maybe a few words. And, uh, Luigi will your, your center, uh, seat there. So maybe we'll start with you and then, then Luca a bit bit about what you're up to after. Thank you. Sean.
Luigi Martino: Thank you very much. No, for me, it's a very great honor because for the first time I'm attending the LSA.
Uh, [00:02:00] physically and then also for the first time I had the opportunity to have a physical podcast or whatever you want. You can call us. You want with it ITSP because it's a, a long, it was a long partnership. Also with the University of Florence, we work together and, uh, you are very, let's say in the front line of cybersecurity, even if, when the people, they don't know what cyber is.
And then you start long time ago. I'm Ji Martino. I'm professor at the University of Florence and University of Bologna from Florence. I, I am director of the Center for Cybersecurity International Relations Studies and also I'm a research scientist at Khalifa University in Abu Dhabi. But all I'm friends of Marco and so on.
It's a very, very pleasure to be with you here today. Today. Thanks. Well,
Sean Martin: I'm glad you came from wherever you arrived from to, to meet us here. For sure. Thank you very much.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. Yeah. And uh, and I, when I saw you [00:03:00] yesterday, I say bring somebody cool so we can have an all conversation together. And I think Luca, once you introduce yourself, nobody cooler the bar.
Nobody cooler than Luca. The
Luca Tagliaretti: bar is very high. Well, thank you. So I'm Luca Ti, I'm, uh, the director of the a new EU body, the European Cybersecurity Competence Center. Uh, new because it's been created in 2021 with the regulation. You know, we like to regulate, but it's only autonomous since the end of, of September last year.
So it's, uh, uh, we have, we're the new kid in the block. We are, uh, responsible for setting a European strategy on cybersecurity, uh, pro providing investment on the research and uptake of technology. So a bit setting up the scene to create long-term strategy in Europe. For making the market more resilient, uh, making our our digital market more resilient.
And then the last part of our responsibility, we, uh, uh, [00:04:00] mandate to create a community, a European level of all the companies or who have a vested interest in cyber. I, I like the, the, now want to go back to the beginning. So talk about the, the fact that we are a group of Italians, but I really like the theme of this year.
Many voices, one community. It really encapsulate well what cyber is, and we are here to look at common solution. We all talk the same language, even though we are coming from different, uh, from different s. So I like that.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, absolutely. Thank
Luca Tagliaretti: you for the invitation.
Marco Ciappelli: My, my, my first thought is how is it going to put all these voices together,
Luca Tagliaretti: shall I?
Well, I think it's, well, it's, it's a long process. It's not something you do overnight. We. Yeah, we are now focused on our, uh, languages. So we are 27 member states, so we just focus on, on the European market. But the, uh, the process, I see a lot of, uh, a lot of interest. I see a lot of very, [00:05:00] very rich ecosystem everywhere.
Everywhere we go, we see so many, so much interest in what, uh, the European Union is doing. I think we need to expand this also to a more global. Uh, scale, but I think it's going well. I mean, I, I, I feel the, uh, positive energy, I dunno how you see from your observ. No, from my perspective observatory. Yeah.
From
Luigi Martino: my perspective is, uh, amazing because there is, there is, let's say the significance of community. Mm-hmm. The meaning of a community here. Know, because we have this topic, this branding and cyber. Without community, you cannot go anywhere. But here is the real place where you can exchange your ideas or you can exchange your also perspective and bad and good experiences in cyber because it's not about selling product.
Is it exchange the point of view, exchange your best practice it exchange your also contact at [00:06:00] networking level? No. And then this is something very amazing, right?
Sean Martin: Well, for me it's, I'm a technologist and so therefore my brain thinks technology first. But I think technology is also, and when we're talking about cyber technology mm-hmm.
It's kind of, even if it's software, it's still a tangible thing. We have conversations around it. Yet there are teams, right? Mm-hmm. There are policies, there are regulations, there are, what are we trying to accomplish, which is beyond the regulations as well. And I'm curious how. Uh, from a a skills perspective, how do things look in the European Union in terms of, are we skilling and educating for technology beyond technology enough to that entire stack of, of how the country's run together?
Yeah.
Luca Tagliaretti: I mean, maybe start in Norwegian, you come from university, you have a For sure. Uh. [00:07:00] A better, uh, a better view there. But I feel it's a, it is a multidimensional project process. So not just the, the skill for the, uh, students, but also skills across the society. We are mainly focused on skill for, uh, uh, for, uh, personnel which are already in the industry.
Those who already use already the job market. How do we upskill them? Okay. It's a, it's a difficult, uh, it's a very difficult, uh, achievement. I, I like to take maybe one example of one thing that we have basically very recently took on bold, which is support of the cybersecurity challenge. This is a very large exercise, more than 10,000, uh, students, the European level, and then the international level they play.
So there is this gamification of the cyber, uh, the cyber, uh, activity. They, they have captured the flag exercise. They have [00:08:00] a, a number of exercise, and this is a, i, I find it a very, very nice way of engaging students. I've been to a couple of their event, and you see an energy that you don't see in other places, which I think it make me kind of positive about the future.
Yeah. That's at least from my point of view again, which you are from the university.
Luigi Martino: Oh, from my, from my point of view, of course, skill shortage is something that we need to consider. But you mentioned showing the regulation. Something related, the regulation, and then, well, I'm just
Sean Martin: thinking it's a, it's a conversation you have to have as a big group of people.
Yeah, yeah. Um, so not just can you deploy technologies and protect the business, can you also have a conversation with the business leaders and with government and policy makers and everybody else? Absolutely.
Luigi Martino: That one of the main point from my perspective is that today definitely we achieve the awareness that cyber is everywhere.
Now we are talking about how cyber can impact space, for instance. Mm-hmm. And how [00:09:00] space can impact, can have an impact on cyber and vice versa. Then what is the problem that we are challenging? We are dealing today as, for instance, it's true that we are, we have a lot over regulation in cyber sector. Maybe sometime, yes.
But think about what happened in the space today. We are talking about a sort of no man's land or in this sector, okay? What, what, what we have to do, how we can manage these escalation, for instance, et cetera, which we need a regulation at least. What we need is to have a clear governance, a clear, big picture, how to manage certain tamed threats and challenges.
Without, without regulation. Again, we are, we live in a unknown land and this is a very, let's say it's a big problem, huge [00:10:00] problem that that's it. For instance, we have other problem today how we can deal with the ai, the big elephant in the room, for instance, the invisible. I brought it up. Brought it up, brought up the invisible elephant.
Exactly. Let's talk about it. How we can deal, for instance, today with ai, what tomorrow? How we can deal with the quantum here. The concept, from my perspective, of course, from my personal perspective, the concept is that when we talk about cyber, we have to consider the, also the technology landscape. All the technology landscape is, it's related to cyberspace.
AI is a new domain. From my perspective, no is an evolution of cyber quantum. It'll be a new domain. Mm-hmm. From
Sean Martin: my perspective, no,
Luigi Martino: because it's related to something of embedded cyber. Mm-hmm. That this means that when we talk about technology, we cannot avoid to [00:11:00] consider the cyber perspective. Yep.
Sean Martin: I've had this debate a lot is, is AI different software than regular, regular software?
Yeah, I might be. Do you have to treat it differently or do, or do you treat it the same and, yeah. Yeah,
Luca Tagliaretti: I, I might be, um, not very popular, but, uh, uh, I like regulation. Maybe that's, that's the way that I coming from, they guide you. I can't, I can't say something else, but I, I think in, in the case of the AI Act, for example, if you take the one of it, right, I like the way that is designed to give, uh, to give just guidelines.
These are just like, uh, broad, uh, uh, area where you could operate and it's only applicable. To the, uh, to distribution of technology, not to the development. You can do the search in all kinds of power of ai. When you put into, into the market, you need to think about who is the final user of the citizen, the human being.
How do we ensure that this is not used in a way that put our [00:12:00] life of risk? So I think it's a great piece of legislation. Um, there might be different view. Uh, but I, I I, I, it took a long time, but I think it was a good job of, uh. Protecting the, the finally the citizen. I mean, we need to look at the, at the final user.
Marco Ciappelli: So we, we talk about guardrail, right? Yeah. Like I think like it's the very common way to rail. 'cause I think it's a softer view and approach. Yeah. It's like it's regulation but we're not like really telling you what we, just giving you guidelines. And for some people that's a good idea. I, for me. First of all, like from an ethical perspective for sure, uh, privacy identity and all the social aspect of it, it's necessary.
Um, other people already feel like yeah, but that even some regulation is gonna stiff innovation. Um, how do you, how do you feel about that?
Luca Tagliaretti: So, uh, I feel that the, this is an excuse that I often hear that the [00:13:00] regulation is, is blocking innovation. Yeah. Because if I'm looking at other fields. Where we are regulated.
Mm-hmm. We also innovate. Yeah. Chemical industry, pharmaceutical. If I'm looking out to, what happened, uh, is, I mean the, the transition from Nokia and Ericson to, uh, iPhone is not because we are the regulation. That's something else. So the, the regulation is often used as a, as an excuse. Okay. You, you could, uh, there might be some area where this will slow down your process.
But that's not the main reason for why we don't have ai, for example, as you have in the us. So that's my view. Is it you
Sean Martin: think it's an immoral, unethical excuse? They're they're trying to be lenient. No, I think it's
Luca Tagliaretti: just, uh, you don't wanna be regulated. There's always, it is, it is easy because it's a visible element there.
And of those who are bit de factor of the union see this as a stiffening, the ability to innovate. [00:14:00] So I think it's, it's that's, that's a. One angle.
Luigi Martino: Yeah. I think that the most important thing here is to consider, okay, what is the cost of regulation? For who? For the market. Okay. But how we can balance the cost of regulation with the benefit for citizens and for instance, for the society.
Then is a regulation a problem? Not for sure. 'cause we need someone, we need guard guidelines. We need also. Let's say red lines. We need someone that is able to implement check and balances. Mm-hmm. This is something good. Of course. Maybe from my perspective, what is very impacting in this sector, in technology sector is a bureaucracy.
Okay. That's, that's more there is collateral effect, right. Of regulation. This means that if we don't have, for instance, [00:15:00] public administration or public servant
Sean Martin: mm-hmm.
Luigi Martino: Able to consider that if we deal with technologies not the same to deal with old style stuff, then you need a new mindset that that's a point, but it's not a regulation per se.
Yeah. It is how you implement the regulation. Mm-hmm. Indeed. For instance, if we think about the European Union today, we have 27 different. Situation insert, uh, in certain field. Mm-hmm. We related to a single, uh, directives, for instance. But if you look, what, what was very interesting, the European Union with the regulation, which is different of mm-hmm.
Directive with the GDPR mm-hmm. At some time, something that it was implemented. Mm-hmm. And then it was used or, or sub best model at international level. Mm-hmm. Is a regulation. The different, of course, [00:16:00] is we talk about the cost of a bureaucracy. Right. Is a huge, the cost of limit the market huge. Yeah. The notification
Luca Tagliaretti: exactly
Luigi Martino: that.
This is something different about the regulation, but we need the regulatory body. We need, for instance, to think about what are the collateral effect related to technology. Mm-hmm. The dark side. What are, for instance, ethical problem when we talk about ai. Mm-hmm.
Sean Martin: Yeah.
Luigi Martino: Is AI a problem? Of course, yes.
Potentially, yes. Because if we invent ai, we invent also the incident related to ai. One of the funny story here, it's very impressive that when I arrive here, I saw some cars. Mm-hmm. Then first time I was shocked that I saw this way car without non driverless. Of course, I, I said in this way. Okay. What happened?
Maybe it's my jet leg. Yes. That is a, we doing something they had already last year. Then I double check and then, oh, that's amazing. But do you have driverless car here? Because you don't have regulation I think. No. You have [00:17:00] here because you have a friendly, also government, which is more oriented on technology.
Yeah. But it's able also to manage the regulation to protect citizens. If they, I cross the road. I know that we implemented certain regulations. It's a
Luca Tagliaretti: very, just that that's point how we can balance.
Luigi Martino: Regulation. I notice how people
Luca Tagliaretti: behave different with webo because you don't, you know, the driver does not get offended, so you can cut him off.
You know, it's very different the way you interact. But then I saw someone that's leaving the car and then they say, bye-bye. So there is a way of humanizing you also the machine.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. You want to put more thoughts, everything. Yeah, exactly.
Luca Tagliaretti: But, but I meter just need to know how, what's your view on the regulation mean, Sean?
And, uh, I
Marco Ciappelli: don't know. I, I just have a thought.
Luca Tagliaretti: Yeah. Yeah.
Marco Ciappelli: And I'm thinking like, why am I in Rob? Right? Why not? Why not? And the relationship between, you know, the way [00:18:00] that we handle the driving in or maybe you can ask, maybe gets a very polite driving. Yeah. Maybe we all get a little nicer. Yes. Because we don't have anybody to offend in this.
Yeah. You don't,
Luca Tagliaretti: uh, someone that's the rules. It's not personal.
Sean Martin: So I like that. So I'm gonna answer your question quickly. We only have one minute Right. To close here. Uh, so I'm gonna say I'm in favor of regulation. If the bureaucracy does Yes. Bureaucracy doesn't, the way and the cost doesn't inhibit smaller organizations to Yes, for sure.
Innovate. If we leave it to only the big ones, we're, I think we're in trouble. Agree. Agree. Um, so, and I think to enable companies to innovate, like you described, to be, uh, favorable toward innovation in a secure way. Yeah. I think is good with delivering frameworks and enabling tools and technologies and processes.
I think so. That's not very short. Yeah. So. Maybe as a final thought now, um, one thing that you hope to, to take from this community this week, uh, from the conference, what if you can bring [00:19:00] one thing back to home, what would that be?
Luca Tagliaretti: Uh, I, for me it's always the sense of unity. So, uh, the, the main, the main takeaway here is how can we.
Do more together. How can we benefit of each other? Experience? How can we build on each other, know how to be better prepared for our challenge? I, I see that's the main, 'cause technology's important. You can always do this online and look at research, new idea, but it's the sense of communities.
Luigi Martino: Yeah. My perspective, I, I want to use the motto of San Francisco.
San Francisco is the first, the city of first. First of everything that That's it. The here what is very impressing that you can touch with your And the innovation. Mm. That innovative environment where people they don't care [00:20:00] about and all that don't want to share this idea. Maybe someone will copy or not.
It's open. It's like open source now. Community. Good point. And then. That's very interesting. As a similarity, we have also this, uh, similar conference in, for instance, in Dubai, ja, which is a very huge conference. Mm-hmm. And commend, you could be there. Mm-hmm. It's another very interesting, interesting concept.
You know, for me it's that one innovation. Mm. And sharing information, a combination of the tools.
Marco Ciappelli: Very good. We have, we have to close. I'll, I'll leave it with you. Well, we have to close, so I want to thank everybody here. Very enjoy and enjoy the time here. Thank to make the best out of it. And, uh, we'll have the conversation.
We are gonna keep going even if we're not here in San Francisco. So thank you. Every, we'll do the next one
Sean Martin: in, uh, Florence. Yes. Thank everybody. Stay tuned for many, many more conversations. Thank you. Thanks. ITSP magazine.com/rsac two five for all of our coverage. Stay [00:21:00] tuned.