This episode reveals how mixtapes became more than just music—they shaped culture, fueled underground scenes, and now need saving before they’re lost forever. Discover how the Mixtape Museum turns personal memories into a collective legacy that honors the past and inspires the future.
Guest: Regan Sommer McCoy, Chief Curator of Mixtape Museum | Website: https://sommer.nyc/
Host: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast & Music Evolves Podcast | Website: https://www.seanmartin.com/
In this episode of Music Evolves, host Sean Martin connects with Sommer McCoy, founder of the Mixtape Museum, to explore how a simple cassette tape became a cultural vehicle for creativity, connection, and entrepreneurship—especially within hip hop. Sommer’s journey starts with managing hip hop artists like the Clipse, where a label dispute revealed the real power of mixtapes as grassroots distribution tools when the industry’s gatekeepers were roadblocks.
Sommer describes mixtapes as more than just homemade compilations; they are living archives of personal and collective history. From recording DJ sets off the radio to carefully curating tapes for summer camp, these stories form a thread that binds generations. Through the Mixtape Museum, Sommer captures not only the tapes themselves but also the hidden data inside—the handwritten J-cards, the audio quality that degrades with each copy, and the layers of social exchange that gave rise to underground music scenes.
What’s striking is that the Mixtape Museum does not seek to own every cassette but instead to document, digitize, and study them. Sommer, a database manager by day, focuses on preserving the stories and metadata behind each tape, spotlighting the artists, DJs, collectors, and communities that sustained the mixtape era. Supported by a Grammy Preservation Grant, she’s already digitized dozens of tapes while helping other collectors understand how to safeguard their archives.
The conversation touches on how mixtapes laid the groundwork for today’s playlists and streaming culture—yet today’s digital curation lacks the physical, handcrafted artistry that made each cassette unique. Sommer’s mission is to encourage collectors and students alike to look deeper: to uncover forgotten shoebox treasures in attics, to share memories, and to research how these tapes shaped music and culture long before social algorithms took over.
At its heart, the Mixtape Museum is an open invitation to honor the past while inspiring new ways to think about music’s role in documenting who we are. For Sommer, each cassette holds more than songs—it holds a memory worth saving.
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[00:00:00] Sean Martin: And hello everybody. You're very welcome to a new episode of Music Evolves. This is Sean Martin, your host. Where I have the pleasure of talking about a topic that I love, which is music, and meeting new friends who share the same or similar passion for the same topic of music. In many forms, as you can imagine, the shows called Music evolves.
It's all about where music's come from and how it's transformed itself, has transformed us and where it's headed. And I am, uh, I'm thrilled to have. Sommer McCoy, join me today. Sommer. It's fabulous. Avon.
[00:00:39] Sommer McCoy: Thanks for having me.
[00:00:41] Sean Martin: We're, uh, yeah, s super fun. A few weeks in the works, pulling this together, uh, through an introduction. A mutual friend, uh, Larry Jaffe, who's a, a really, really good guy.
Really good guy. He's also here in New York. And, um, so his [00:01:00] introduction was revolving around the. Mixtape museum, which I was like, that sounds really cool. Let's, let's definitely talk about that. Um, but there's so much more to what you're working on and all the stuff that you do Sommer. So I wanted to, uh, kind of touch on some of that stuff first.
So maybe just a quick background of, of, uh, kind of your, your involvement early, early involvement in music, and what inspired you to be in, involved, uh, in the way
[00:01:27] Sommer McCoy: Yeah, so sure, happy to talk about it. My background actually started in the music industry managing hip hop artists. Um, so I worked primarily with the Clipse out of Virginia, where my family's from. I started out as my cousin's assistant, shout out to Anthony. Um, and I was in New York, even though I was working with the group that was work that lived in Virginia.
So I was kind of had a, a. A good position to be in the center of everything and being able to manage [00:02:00] their day-to-day, uh, business, um, and be close to the labels and things like that. Um, and then from there I stayed in hip hop, but got really interested in hip hop education and also documenting the history of hip hop.
Um, and it was, it wasn't until. The clips had to use a mix tape, their first mix tape to, they were in the middle of a dispute with Jive Records, I think it was, and weren't able to put out an album, and we had to rely on a mix tape. We got it for cheap volume one, and that's when I learned about Mix tapes, the power of mix tapes.
I mean, I knew about my personal relationship with them, but having to use them. Professionally to boost their music. That's where all of this started. So the Mix Tape Museum started from us needing the mix tape to help [00:03:00] push their career, uh, during this time when they could not put out music because of the labels.
[00:03:08] Sean Martin: Right. Well, let's, I know we were gonna get to that, but let, let's just dive in right there and then we'll, we'll come back to some of the bam stuff as well. But, um, because that's super interesting. I think a lot of people listening might have a personal connection to mix tapes as a listener, but you're describing the other side of it as a, as an artist and as a producer and as a performer.
And, um, so tell us a little bit more about that story and, and the. The connection or the disconnection, maybe with the labels in that
[00:03:39] Sommer McCoy: Yeah. So the great thing about mix tapes, I mean, even in our personal lives, like it wasn't the same restrictions as listening to a album, right? Like, um, I think of my first, uh, one of my first CDs, which was like, I think it was like Michael Jackson. [00:04:00] My mom's boyfriend gave me a boombox. This is like seedy era. Um, and that's really when I started making. I, it is just a moment I remember like this, this CD and this boombox and me being able to record from the CD onto tape. Now, I did record from tape to tape, but when the CD came and I was a little old, it was just older and I just have this memory, I really realized how much I was able to curate. My tapes the way I wanted to, right? I, I didn't have to listen to the album from track one to track 14. I had this like sudden freedom to do what I wanted. And not only that, I didn't have to just have hip hop or pop or rock, right? Like I could also mix music onto one little cassette. Um, and my experience before that in my bedroom was recording off the radio like. From DJ Red Alert [00:05:00] onto tape, um, and then maybe giving that to friends or like recording my voice onto tape. Um, so that same freedom, we saw that with the clips when, you know, during that time the labels were not really interested in what artists were doing on mix tape, right? Like, and what I mean by that is. With albums, the, you know, the, the label has full control over who you produce with when it's released. Some of the marketing with mix tapes, artists began to use this blank canvas as a means to create their own street album. It's sometimes what you hear in hip hop, um, and it just means that you have this freedom to. Do what you want. Um, so the clips at that time, uh, knew that the label could [00:06:00] not do much. Um, they even, I believe, leaked the song onto the mixtape, uh, just to kind of like slight the label. Um, but just, I just wanna rewind also back, even before artists were using mix tapes, uh. There was a moment in hip hop where DJs were using mix tapes, um, and recording their sets at the club, and then eventually they were making mix tapes in their studios, right?
And then using that excitement, uh, to distribute those recordings to the public. Um, and that's really, I mean, with the cassette it was, you know, tiny. You could record fit in your pocket, you could mail it. Um, so not just for hip hop, but the cassette was very, was like a, a vehicle for a lot of music around that time because it was easy to, to move around.
Um, [00:07:00] so there's
[00:07:01] Sean Martin: Yeah, that's, that's my experience with the, with the mix tape as well. I mean, uh, I grew up in LA and, and around the time hip hop and DJs were coming out, I mean that I probably have a stack of mix tapes. I'm not in LA at the moment, but there's probably a stack of mixed tapes in LA from different DJs in the LA area, putting their own tracks together, their own mixes together, their own scratching on top of it, and, and creating their own persona.
Using these tapes and, and sharing with others. And I mean, I, I still cherish a number of those, a number of those mixes. 'cause they obviously bring back a lot of memories as well
[00:07:39] Sommer McCoy: If you still have those tapes, I might tap you for a mixed tape memory
[00:07:43] Sean Martin: for the museum. Exactly.
[00:07:45] Sommer McCoy: Yeah.
[00:07:48] Sean Martin: So let um. So let's talk about the museum in, in that regard then. 'cause um, why, why was it, what is it? First off, just so people know what it is.
[00:07:59] Sommer McCoy: [00:08:00] Um, it's self.[00:09:00] [00:10:00] [00:11:00]
[00:11:50] Sean Martin: It's,
and so the, the physical collection still [00:12:00] exists as well.
Uh, just those collections. Yeah.
No.
MySpace kind of, yeah.[00:13:00]
[00:13:42] Sommer McCoy: Celebrate the creators of tapes and the people who are studying them. Um, I am just wrapping up. I have to finish my final report actually, but the Grammy preservation. Uh, foundation gave grant to preserve mix tapes. So that's [00:14:00] what I've been working on the last couple of months, uh, which has been really exciting.
Um, so I, yeah, I started with a few tapes. I was able to do about 70 tapes with the grant, um, but also just get things moving so that I can start helping collectors. Like my collection is nothing compared to some of the collectors. Uh. Shout out to Tate Master. He has a collection the size of a small nursery, and it's just tapes of like on his walls
from the floor to the ceiling.
So I would like to support collectors like that who have their collections at home, um, and wanna
save them and preserve them.
[00:14:43] Sean Martin: because the goal isn't necessarily, you correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not to consolidate collections into a single museum. It's to document the collections and, and, and the history behind those collections, right?
[00:14:59] Sommer McCoy: Yeah. [00:15:00] So, yeah, well, I mean, I'm a database manager by day. Um, so data's really important. Um, and when you think about cassettes, mix tapes on cassette, right? The J cards where we would write. Track listing. Um, that's metadata. It's just analog metadata that
we may not have been documenting then. But if we saved those J cards, my goal is to bring all of that into the digital realm.
Right? So what the tapes from the Grammy, uh, preservation project, I was able to digitize these tapes. There still has to be like identifying some of the artists, some of the songs. Um, and I may not be able to do this all on my own, right? Because some of these tapes are before my time maybe. Um, which is really exciting. Like the [00:16:00] best thing about this project has been talking to so many people about like their experience and their knowledge, um, and being able to identify what some of these songs are. But I recognize also as a database person that you're not gonna get all the data, right? Like, I'm not gonna be able to save every mixtape from every Nike shoebox and basement in the world.
Like I recognize that. Um, but for the ones that I do, I would like to see, you know, an example is if we look at, um, a mix tape collection, how many times might an artist appear on a tape, right? And then let's look at their. History. Right? We could look at stretch and barbido, right? They had, uh, a radio show at Columbia's radio station a few decades ago, and those shows were taped by so many listeners. Um, and they even have a great collection of their tapes, but like, I would like to look at that data to see how their show [00:17:00] impacted said artists that they had on their show. Do you know what I mean? Um, and there's other trends and things that we can, that we can pull from that. Uh, so yes, it's um, I don't remember your question exactly, but it's.
[00:17:17] Sean Martin: the, the different collections that people have, their own personal collections, the goal isn't to take over their collection. The goal is to to digitize and, and preserve what they are
[00:17:29] Sommer McCoy: correct. Because I have no place to put them.
[00:17:32] Sean Martin: Yes,
[00:17:33] Sommer McCoy: I don't have a place to put them yet. Um, yeah, I'm more interested. I'm, I'm really interested in the people who have collections, how they got their collections, how they're caring for their collections. Um, how they interact with other collectors. So I have no interest in taking people's tapes and, and hoarding them in, you know, uh, 'cause I have no place to put them, but in my house for now. [00:18:00] Um, it wasn't until we were all home, uh, during CO that I was like, Hmm, I wonder what a mix tape museum building would look like. Um. So I've been thinking more about that, uh, and also collaborating with other institutions and entities that may be interested in like an exhibit, you know, um, until maybe one day there's a permanent home.
Uh, but I'm really interested in studying the people who are studying tapes. And those people are usually studying the people that create the mix tapes, right? It's the stories that come out of. Tapes because for whatever reason, when you say the word mix tape in a room, people have stories. They just, they, they just come out. So that's one of the reasons why I really started focusing on collecting people's mix tape memories. And what makes them, like, what memories conjure up when they start thinking about mix tapes?
[00:18:54] Sean Martin: Right. Do you have any, any stories that come to mind?
[00:18:57] Sommer McCoy: Oh my gosh, I have so many stories. [00:19:00] Um. I was just telling, I was talking to my godbrother recently about our camp that we used to go to every Sommer up in Massachusetts. Um, and the only thing we could bring were books and like, I mean, there were no cell phones back then, so that wasn't the distraction.
[00:19:22] Sean Martin: It be different,
[00:19:23] Sommer McCoy: But we could bring books and like, I would bring my Walkman. Um, I had a Walkman and a CD player at that time. We had, uh, yeah. Um, but a lot of people to prepare for camp, you weren't just preparing your shorts and your hiking boots. Right. It was also like, oh, let me create this mix tape. Most of the kids I went to camp with were not from the area.
We were all coming from different places. So that was the beauty of being able to like, make these tapes and bring them. Um, and I was just talking about that with my God brother the other day. [00:20:00] Uh, when I went to Hampton University, uh, in Virginia, the one tape I took with me was d was DJ Doops 95 Live. This is one of the best mixed tapes in the history of hip hop mix tapes. Shout out to dj Op. Um, I still have that exact tape, and it was the most, that tape was copied. So many people, um, because it had just dropped in 95, hence Doop 95 live. Um, and I went to Hampton in 95, um, and I brought that tape from New York down to Hampton, Virginia, and it was copied a bazillion times.
And I just wrote actually a short mix tape memory. For, uh, the Association for Recorded Sound Collections newsletter, like a couple, like a year, couple, couple years ago. Um, because that tape is so important to the hip, [00:21:00] the, the history of hip hop, and also it was released during the time where DJs were moving away from tape on tape onto CD mix tape. So Doops 95 live. Uh. He ended up putting it out on CD not too long after. Um, but also the, the mixtape was white labeled like in other countries because it was so popular. that's just two short stories. But I've got, so many, there's so many.
[00:21:31] Sean Martin: How, how about, um, oh, what is, I'm curious, what's a white, what's the white label thing mean? Is it just
[00:21:37] Sommer McCoy: white
[00:21:38] Sean Martin: under his name?
[00:21:40] Sommer McCoy: No. So white label is, and this would happen even with the clips when I work with the clips. Uh, it's interesting because white label kind of takes on the form of a mix tape because you can take a song or music and we would ship it to a [00:22:00] distributor. I can think of people in Japan, Germany, and they would print it up on vinyl. But there's no label. It was just the white label
and maybe
[00:22:14] Sean Martin: Literally white label.
[00:22:15] Sommer McCoy: white, literally white label. Um, and it would be distributed not through the label. Um, and you're seeing a lot of these white label, uh, vinyl. But also like, I remember seeing cassettes. I mean, there was a distribution of cassettes also from DJs or from music, from artists here that happened. In other countries, that's how popular these tapes were. Um, and then they would be redistributed. But you know, for an artist that's like free promo, you know?
[00:22:53] Sean Martin: Absolutely. How about have you connected with a lot of collectors, I guess, is that the right term for them? [00:23:00] Collectors?
[00:23:00] Sommer McCoy: Yeah. Collectors. Yeah. Well, yes. One of my first, one of the first things I did. Um, was form a group of friends supporters. These were people that were supporting Justo and Justo Mixtape Awards, people who were fans of DJs and mixtape DJs. Um, a lot of people here from New York, so people, I, I threw out the name Tape Master Eric Johnson. Um. I relied on them to connect me with other collectors. Um, and what ended up happening was they connected with people from, who are collectors from literally all over the world who have collections of cassettes, um, and forward to right now. Today I sit on the board for the Association for Recorded Sound Collections. And I targeted [00:24:00] that organization because when I found out about it early and got involved, not only were they supporting my work, um, but I realized that like these collectors are researchers, right? Like they live with their collections. Um, whether you're collections on vinyl, cd, cassette, or wire recordings, right? they're they're experts. Um, and they're, they're. Their work and their, their research needs to be highlighted, um, outside of just wherever their collections live. Um, so that was one of the first things I did was collect with, connect with collectors because the collectors have already connected with each other. Um, during the blog era, uh, when blogs were real popular, especially for the hip hop industry, a lot of collectors were digitizing their tapes and they would just get a plug and play. Uh, digitizer from like, I don't know, PC Richards or something like that. Not the best audio, not an [00:25:00] official archival copy, like what I'm getting from the Grammy preservation grant. But enough for them to upload it to their personal blog and share it with people that wanted to just have a copy of it. Um, so yeah, I, I connected with tons and tons of collectors, um, and they really are. Yes, there's the DJs. Um, but the collectors for me are really important and have been like supporting the research and the vision and the work and also guiding what I'm doing a lot of the
[00:25:32] Sean Martin: Right now, do you find there's an overlap of. Similar or same mix tapes between collectors or are there, is there one wildly popular one that everybody has or, or a few of
[00:25:48] Sommer McCoy: I mean, yeah, everybody
has Doop
[00:25:50] Sean Martin: board, I'm sure.
[00:25:51] Sommer McCoy: live. Yeah, everyone has Doop 95 live. Um, everyone has a a, a Tony touch mix [00:26:00] tape. Tony Touch named a lot of his tapes by number. Um, so it'd be like Tony touch number 57 or something like that. Um, the other interesting thing is when collectors copy tapes. To give to other collectors. There's something that happens there that I'm really interested in, right? The, the, the sound. Every time you copy something like the sound, it degrades the sound. So I'm also interested in the lifecycle of tapes, how it's passed, and you know, if I have a tape. I think of it almost like forensics, right? It's like how can an engineer, I'm, one thing I'm not is an engineer, like I'm not in the studio.
I do work with people who are engineers, preservation engineers or whatnot. Um, but I am very interested in, you know, if you get a tape and you can tell that if I know the year it came out, um, even looking at the [00:27:00] actual tape, there were so many brands of tapes, right?
Maxwell,
[00:27:05] Sean Martin: minutes, 90 minutes, all
[00:27:06] Sommer McCoy: 90, right? If you were special you could get one 20. Um, but like also just that sound, the forensics of the sound quality, if you will, um, when people copy taped, because it was that copying of tapes that helped build community, right? Because you were able to give someone something that meant something or you were doing it for promotion, you know?
[00:27:35] Sean Martin: So clearly. Documenting is a, is a huge thing for you. You do this broader, you mentioned it broader for hip hop in general, not just for mixed, mixed tapes. What does that work look like, because you've been doing that for even longer, if I'm not mistaken. Right.
[00:27:53] Sommer McCoy: Yeah. Um. I think one of the things that I [00:28:00] noticed was after Justo founder, the Mixtape Awards passed away, I was like, wait a minute. Like I didn't record the stories and the history that he taught me. It's not anywhere. Right? And then when I started working in academia and combing through JSOR and through all of these scholarly journals, I'm like, where's the hip hop?
Right? Like, where's the documentation of. Hip hop, like who's writing about it? Um, but there were already a community of people. Um, I instantly found a, a good friend of mine, Martha Diaz, who had started the hip hop education center at NYU, where she was funding scholars who were studying hip hop or they were using hip hop in their classrooms to teach. Young people, um, at different levels, K through 12, but also, um, university level. Um, [00:29:00] there was just a need to document my, my first, my experience with documentation. It was actually through, there's so much other, there's so much more.[00:30:00] [00:31:00]
[00:31:21] Sean Martin: So you, you mentioned earlier, uh, analyzing in specific, in the context of the, the mix tape and kinda looking at. Which artists were prevalent in different areas and, and different songs and things like that. Uh, I'm sure there's tons of, tons of metadata and metadata you can use to kind of analyze and mix and mix and match and get different stories out of it.
Um, from the bigger picture of the documentation that you've done for hip hop, are there, are there any, I don't know, signals or stories or something in the work that you've done? That surfaced that you didn't [00:32:00] expect and, and or maybe that somebody listening might not, might not know about only because you documented a collection of information that is there.
Right.[00:33:00] [00:34:00]
Yeah.[00:35:00]
[00:35:02] Sommer McCoy: Data that we are not even thinking of. Uh. I think this Grammy grant, as I'm going through the audio and listening, um, most of the tapes that I use, that I use for the Grammy grant are from a collector, um, who has passed away. So I was donated his tapes, um, from the Gates Preserve. Um, but his tapes were, and I, I'll send you images after, after our, after we wrap up, but he was a graffiti artist, um, and not a known graffiti artist, but his. Covers. His J cards were so ornate and they were all handmade, whether it was collage or marker. Um, and in every tape he used, not every tape, but a lot of his tapes. Instead of using the J card, he used the index card as the track listing, and then the J card was the like. I, I don't [00:36:00] even know how to describe it. Um, but some of his larger graffiti work went to the graffiti museum down in Florida, um, which is really exciting. So that actually exists. There's a graffiti museum in Florida.
[00:36:13] Sean Martin: That's probably a good place for it. Um, I wanna thank you for all of that and, uh. Yeah, I kind of put you on the spot in terms of the data analysis, but maybe, maybe more philosophical view of this, um, where the evolution of hip hop and it's, I, I, I joked, but the disconnect between I. Hip hop and the labels and mainstream access and mainstream adoption and love for it, and the mixtape mixed into all of that as well.
H how did that evolution, how, how and when did that kind of take place? And my next question will [00:37:00] be how, how is it shaped now? I mean. We can look at the digital world and playlist, but that's not the same. So, uh, maybe the history first, kind of how, how things evolved over the
[00:37:13] Sommer McCoy: Yeah. Well, I'll start by saying that, you know, playlists and our phones and all of the curating we do, it is the evolution of the cassette. You know, um, without the cassette, I don't think we would've had, like I. Whatever we're using now, like, you know, apple Music or whatever. Um, the cassette first of all was not even made for music. It was made for like dictation, like office dictation. Um, so I think that's important to note because again, it, it, it, the cassette brings out like, uh, a spirit of like entrepreneurship. Almost. Um, and I think the evolution speaks to that. [00:38:00] Um, but once we were able to capture music onto cassette, uh, and then had the boombox, right, the boombox and the cassette,
um, hip hop for a lot of hip hop artists, then like the cassette was, and, and DJs and artists, the cassette was their final release, right?
Like they may not have had a record deal. They could make copies of tapes, whether they were doing it themselves or, I mean, Justo even introduced me to people who were had, um, tape duplicators. I mean, not my little boombox that had two cassettes, but I mean, like they could do hundreds of copies of tapes at like within. Minutes, if not seconds, not seconds, but minutes. Um, so again, that it's that entrepreneurship that [00:39:00] drove those artists, those DJs to use the cassette to promote themselves. Um, a lot of those artists traveled, right? If you had a artist that was traveling to France, I think of epi, uh, who, I call him the mix tape journalist.
He's a journalist out of Paris. Who I met because he wanted to do a story and he was doing research on cassettes, but he talked about in his mix tape memory, how he would go to concerts, not necessarily because of the artist, but because he knew that artist was traveling with their DJ and their dj. They always came with their tapes because who didn't have a merch table? Right. So that's how, you know, some of that, those tapes were able to make it to different countries and of course. Once you have this tape circulating in Paris, then there's a demand to bring, maybe not just that artist, but then that DJ to DJ a club in another country. Right? So that entrepreneurship, [00:40:00] it be, it, it's viral. Um, on, on, uh, on cassette. Um, and then I think, um, we, we also, with cassettes, particularly with hip hop, there's. Different genres of cassettes, um, of different genres of, say, like an example would be like there were DJs that specialized in reggae mix tapes. There were DJs that specialized in r and b mix tapes, right. Um, DJ Ron G was responsible for breaking Mary j Blige. He did it on a mixtape. It wasn't the radio that broke it. It was the distribution of his, of this tape where he remixed her song with hip hop. Right. And then put it on his tape and
[00:40:52] Sean Martin: And then
[00:40:53] Sommer McCoy: was distributed.
[00:40:55] Sean Martin: and played in clubs and
[00:40:57] Sommer McCoy: Exactly.
[00:40:58] Sean Martin: wherever else.
[00:40:58] Sommer McCoy: Exactly. And [00:41:00] imagine like, oh, it's on tape, but like, what if a DJ wants to play it in a club on vinyl? That's where your white labels might come in, you know? So, uh. Yeah. So I mean, the mix tape is, it's, it's, it's a case study of entrepreneurship. I mean, if you even look at Lou Ottens who created the, the cassette tape, um, with his team, if you watch, um, cassette documentary, uh, by my friend Zach, um, it's on Amazon streaming.
He got to really get close and up and personal with Lou. And also met his team of engineers and like the designers and other people. Um, they were all in their eighties and nineties when he met them and got to interview them. Um, and Lou for a little while didn't really have like a real connection to the tape, right?
Like [00:42:00] you have to just watch the documentary. I actually just interviewed Zach here in Harlem, um, and he talked about. How Lou was just so humble about like this thing that helped revolutionize the world. Um, yeah, but you know, he passed away a couple years ago, so that was really sad. But again, on the internet, on the Twitter at the time when he passed away, people were mix tape memories everywhere.
They were just
everywhere. Like people were just. Back into their memory and their childhood. Um, a lot of the DJs talked about how cassettes changed their, changed their careers. Um, so yeah.
[00:42:48] Sean Martin: Yeah. I mean, ultimately that's, that's what it is, right? Music touches us somehow, some way, um, certainly through our ears. But, [00:43:00] uh, if you're in a club, maybe through the beat, but but also mentally, right? And, and it's, it's often connected to where we are and how we're feeling at the moment, and who we're with and what we're thinking about, and all of that, I'll say mixed together, right?
[00:43:18] Sommer McCoy: I, I think what's interesting also is sometimes, like I can think of a, a, a mix tape that I've made, and for whatever reason. You might remember the first and last song, like I may not remember what's in the middle, but I remember the first and last because it was just important, like how you open
and how you close the tape.
And a lot of
people, you know who I speak to, they remember the first and last song on a mix tape.
[00:43:48] Sean Martin: Yeah. What, um, what do you, what do you think's next? Because the, the one thing, and maybe it's just I'm lazy or haven't looked at it, but the, [00:44:00] the, the creative element of creating a mix tape, um, isn't captured in a playlist for me,
[00:44:08] Sommer McCoy: Uh,
[00:44:08] Sean Martin: and especially if it's, if it's a mix that's recorded. During a performance, right?
Where there's live, live elements to it and you can't get that from a recorded two recorded tracks on, on Spotify and stick 'em together in a playlist. You, you lose some of the, is there, I guess, is there a resurgence you see any in a desire to have mix tapes in that medium? I talking to Larry Jaffe,
[00:44:37] Sommer McCoy: I.
[00:44:37] Sean Martin: obviously resurgence in vinyl.
Do we see something similar in tapes?
[00:44:42] Sommer McCoy: Well, Larry's also very passionate about, uh, I, I actually visited his class a couple months ago and got to talk about mixtapes with his class. Um, yeah. Uh, absolutely There's someone, and Larry and I talked about this, someone, [00:45:00] um. Tried to do like a mix tape store day or cassette store day or something like that. Um, not sure where it is now, um, but for a little while I would, when I saw it popular I, on, especially on Instagram, I would repost and engage with the Mix Tape Museum account, um, with the account, with the Mix Tape Museums account with cassette store day. Um. Look, I am collecting artists that are active right now who are putting out music on cassette. They're not distributing it on cassette. They're putting out novelty items, right? They're putting out, um, I'm trying to think. Megan Thee stallion, like, I think that's one of the last tapes that I, that I got because she.
You know, dropped a song and decided to put out a few copies on, you know, collector's items.
Um, but I think that, [00:46:00] I mean, there's, there's plants that exist, right? Where there's still printing tapes, you know, um, there's tons of stores. I mean, go to Brooklyn and en enter any music store or even, you know, like secondhand store, thrift shop. I find tapes in there all the time, you know? Um, and there's always
[00:46:24] Sean Martin: You uncover mix tapes there.
[00:46:26] Sommer McCoy: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And what's fun about that is you don't know where they're coming from or who they are. I don't, I don't go in there looking for a ton of tapes. When I am inside of a thrift shop, I'm absolutely looking for any type of music store I go. Tape table. Like there may just be a table, but
you know, and everything else is vinyl.
[00:46:53] Sean Martin: Nice CD item to work on. Anytime I'm in a.
[00:46:57] Sommer McCoy: Yeah. I mean, you never know what you find. Zach, [00:47:00] uh, Zach, the producer, uh, Zach Taylor, producer of the cassette documentary, he'll, he always sends me pictures. Um, he'll, he's like, some, I was just in a store and I found this tape, you know, so it, I, I, um.
[00:47:14] Sean Martin: cool.
[00:47:16] Sommer McCoy: And I think also after Lou Ottens passing, there was a, I think that also did something, I mean, certainly after Justo passed away, something happened within the DJ community where people just felt that nostalgia bubble up right and needed to do something.
Which is why I still want to encourage a a, a large part of my work is encouraging. People studying music to study tapes and cassettes and nostalgia and all of that. Um,
[00:47:51] Sean Martin: Yeah.
[00:47:51] Sommer McCoy: because I think as people read, that's what helps keep it go, you know, that's what keeps keeps it going is people researching them and talking about them [00:48:00] and
being able to read the stories that are attached
[00:48:04] Sean Martin: So when the, when students are studying music there, um, and you say study study tapes and, and mixed tapes, the, is it that they go, 'cause they're young, right? So they they probably don't have any, I'm assuming they're young. Um, so is it that they ask their parents and their aunts and uncles and their, and their distant cousins, second cousins, what have you, and.
And get their stories or how, how does that look?
[00:48:33] Sommer McCoy: Well, I mean, even for me personally, right? Like when I met Justto, I think we were like maybe 10 years apart. So I learned about a history of cassettes that I wasn't even directly involved in, especially when it came to DJs and, and artists. Like in the early eighties. I wasn't in the club in the eighties, like I was still a kid. Um, so I learned that history through. and other [00:49:00] people and other DJs. And I think a lot of the researchers that, um, speak to now, I like, I'm so humbled that I've had two or three college students write papers about the mixtape museum or write papers about cassettes. Um, but they mention the museum and that is so special. Um, but yes, they are interviewing people who. Similar to how hip hop started. Hip hop started because young people had access to their parents' record collections. Right. It wasn't hip hop music, but it may have been jazz, funk, reggae, you know, like could have been a many things. Um, so I, you know, I think, and that's what I like about visiting classes, like Larry's class. First of all, you'd be surprised at how many students know what a cassette is. Um, and I don't, this is why I love [00:50:00] mentorship because I get so much out of learning from young people and I don't like to discount or go into a situation thinking they know nothing. Um. They know a lot more than we think. When I did a, I did a talk at the New York Call of Science for the 50th anniversary of hip hop, and it was like the science of sound and we highlighted, uh, the mix tape and passed around.
I passed around a blank Maxwell tape, still in plastic. And you could, as we were talking through the panel, you could hear the kids trying to like, pop it open and like, you know, trying to open it and crack the case. Um. And some of those kids were just like, oh yeah, my dad has these tapes. Right. And my mom, one kid told a story about like how his dad had a collection and like his mom like tried to get him to throw it away. Right. Um, but then the dad came to talk to me after and was like, oh my gosh. Like these are all DJs that I [00:51:00] collected as a young person and I still have this collection. So yeah, they're learning through their parents' collections or friends or aunts and uncles collections. And I think. Is what's so important about, um, the association for recorded sound collections is collections need to be researched,
you know?
[00:51:22] Sean Martin: Well, that's what I wanna close with Sommer is, um, how, how can. How and where can people get involved? What do, what do you need for mixed team museum? The, uh, collection, uh, resource and you just mentioned there, um, we didn't touch on much of your bam, the bam work you're doing. Maybe we can have another chat about that.
But what, I guess, what do you need? How can people get involved? Um, I'm, I'm sure there are tapes floating all over, people listening to this. Um, they wanna help document or if they want to contribute. Funds or Ty, I don't know, [00:52:00] whatever. What, what? How can people help?
[00:52:02] Sommer McCoy: Yeah, I am interested in your stories. I am interested in like, if you hear me, go dig in a Timberland or Nike shoebox. 'cause that's where people save tapes. We did a whole thing about that. Um, or in your parents' attic or wherever they might be. Um. And I mean, again, I, I don't encourage anyone to just throw a tape into a dirty radio because it might, uh, damage them, but I do know people that can fix them. Um, but I, I'm interested in the stories. Um, I think after this, uh, after I wrap up this Grammy grant, I am interested in. Connecting with more collectors to see how to just do a survey to see what people need, um, so that I know what to go and, uh, you know, [00:53:00] what the resources are. Um, I'm interested in con connecting with, uh, people that are, one of the things I'm working on is a, a fellowship program. Um, I'm interested in creating that space for people to. Be funded to study, funded these tapes, um, particularly in hip hop, but not just hip hop. Um, so that's something that I'm, I'm starting to think about is how to make that, how to make that possible. So, yeah. And just also, again, like the mix Tape Museum has not been something I've been able to do on my own.
And what I mean by that is it's people that have guided me through, um. Ideas and feelings and stories. Um, and that's how I'm able to decide what my next steps are. Um, but it's, I just wanna hear from people and collect their stories. So if there's any way to amp that up, [00:54:00] um, like I'm all for it.
[00:54:04] Sean Martin: I love it. Well, hopefully, uh, hopefully people listening have, have a story and we'll share it with you and, uh, and we'll keep documenting.
[00:54:16] Sommer McCoy: Yeah. Online, findable, everywhere. Just Google Mix Tape. Museum. Uh, also, dear Sommer, I'm on every social media platform. I'm findable.
[00:54:29] Sean Martin: Yes. And of course, uh. People know, I'll include links to all of those that you provide to me so they can easily get to them from, from the show notes here, um, Sommer, fantastic meeting and chatting with you.
[00:54:43] Sommer McCoy: you. so
[00:54:43] Sean Martin: And, uh, fascinating topic. Um, bit nostalgic as well, of course. And, uh, hope, hopefully we'll have a chance to, uh, to connect again in person.
I don't know if you, do you, uh, do you perform at all? Do you
[00:54:57] Sommer McCoy: I do not, no, I, I[00:55:00]
was a ballet dancer back in the day. That's my only talent outside of
managing, uh, managing careers. Uh, but no, I don't perform. I.
[00:55:11] Sean Martin: because Make, because Make Music Day is coming up in June. So,
[00:55:15] Sommer McCoy: That's
right. Yeah.
[00:55:17] Sean Martin: that's every, everybody, everybody who has the op or the potential to play gets out and plays. So I thought maybe we can connect during that, that, that weekend. But, uh, we will, we'll see, hopefully sometime in, in the future. And. Please, please, uh, keep doing what you're doing.
It's super cool, super important. And I mean, my perspective is we, we learned from the past to create the moment now that moves us and that move us, that movement helps us continue to, to grow and, and shine and do better things in the future. So it's all about e evolution in music and you're documenting a, a key part of that.
So thank you for that.
[00:55:58] Sommer McCoy: Thank you.[00:56:00]
[00:56:00] Sean Martin: And thanks everybody for listening to this episode of Music of All. I appreciate you all watching and listening and participating, and, uh, hopefully you have a, a chance to connect with Sommer as well yourself. Please do subscribe to the podcast newsletter and stay tuned for more as we keep looking for ways to let the music move us.