Unravel Kushal Chawla's extraordinary journey from IIT to earning a coveted USC PhD. This gripping saga celebrates his unwavering grit, passion for excellence, and ultimate triumph.
Guest: Kushal Chawla, Applied Researcher, Capital One [@AskCapitalOne]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/kushalchawla/
Website | https://kushalchawla.github.io/
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Host: Saman Fatima
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/saman-fatima
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Episode Description
Are you from India? Wishing to come to the USA for your studies? Do you wish to do your Doctorate?
Is your dream university - the University of Southern California? If yes, grab a pen, paper, and water, and you are all good to know everything. From researching the dream university to getting selected and beating the elephant in the room (i.e. the VISA process) to settling up - you need to know EVERYTHING because, at the end of the day, it is a foreign land with a lot of newness, loneliness, and self-dependency.
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For more podcast stories from Off The Record With Saman: https://www.itspmagazine.com/off-the-record-with-saman-student-abroad-podcast
Watch the video version on-demand on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0954PDs3hFI&list=PLnYu0psdcllS96iavkI5nQsErJ3795ow6
Kushal's Odyssey: From IIT to USC PhD - Finally PhinisheD | Conversation with Kushal Chawla | Off the Record with Saman — Student Abroad Podcast
17:24:02 Go for it.
17:24:08 Hi everyone, we're back with another episode of Off the Record with Me, Summon. And this episode is really special to me because so far we've been doing a lot of students who have been here doing their masters, graduated and then working or maybe searching for the job or yet to be graduated.
17:24:27 But this one is with a student who is Who has taken that liberty to, you know, be part of this episode and share about his doctorate.
17:24:37 Jonny and how those many years with an amazing university and I have been after him for a couple of weeks now and getting him right on the break.
17:24:46 So welcome, Krishna. And I'm really glad for you to be here after all that busy schedules and we could actually make it up today in different time zones actually.
17:24:58 So it's like LA and Dallas. Coming up together. So welcome and I would really want you to introduce yourself to everyone here.
17:25:07 Thank you so much for having me. This is great work. That you're doing here. I'm Kushal Chabla, 5th year PhD student.
17:25:16 I can now say finally a CIA state student at USC computer science. And I have, like spent 5 years in the States, from my PhD moved here.
17:25:27 2019. And, I grew up in India, where I went to IT for my undergrad and then spent a couple of years in the, in corporate.
17:25:37 I was working in Bangalore, that's when I thought that, okay, I want to leave all this and go to US, my PhD.
17:25:46 I can talk more about why I did that, but, I guess we will touch upon that throughout this session.
17:25:51 But yeah, it's been fun and, I just defended last month. And just looking forward to the next phase in my life.
17:26:01 I'll be moving to New York City after this. So excited for that.
17:26:04 That's amazing. That's really amazing. And I really wanted to congratulate because 5 years is really a great time spending one year at my master's was a lot.
17:26:13 I'll say it very openly now, but you have 5 years like spending that much time.
17:26:19 Is a lot.
17:26:22 Okay.
17:26:19 Yeah, so do you have to like base it well? So I always say that you need to take it as a kind of job that pays less.
17:26:28 If you still think yourself as a student that the same energy I don't think like it's obviously subjective but for me that same in township level or master level energy is just not scalable for 5 years.
17:26:41 So, I had to learn how to pace it well. To keep myself saving.
17:27:03 Yeah.
17:26:44 I'll take notes during this podcast like I have that, you know, during this podcast, like I had that, you know, I still have it though, but after my master's, I just put it into the backseat that I still wanted to But I still have to muster up a lot of courage to spend these many years and you know as patient as possible and then.
17:27:07 Get that load in front of your name. So. Yeah, we will be discussing all of that in anyone who is planning to do their PhD here in the United States.
17:27:13 Sure.
17:27:18 And you know, I just am free to say I'm 1 to ask you before we move on to the major set of the questions that we want to discuss here that why not masters and why just went for the PhD would be my 1st question here.
17:27:32 Okay. So, so I actually, this was at the core of my decision. I actually got 2 comments or 2 admits one from one for PhD and one for masters and that was at CMU.
17:27:49 Okay. Like a more research focus master's in itself. But still a mustard.
17:27:55 You have to apply for a PhD right again after 2 years. It's still not sorted.
17:28:01 So, and I had to, so mostly I want to do a PhD because I was working with Senior PhD.
17:28:09 This senior researchers have already done their PhDs and then move back to India, Adobe, and I was working with them.
17:28:20 It's kind of I liked the way they approached the problem somehow like it's you can see the difference and one way was that I could see that, okay, they've done all that training and then they're doing all this.
17:28:32 So I need all that. And also I was interested in doing research. I was involved with that and PhD kind of gives you that environment.
17:28:40 Finally, one more thing that comes to mind is, industry kind of, if you want to do research, I was already in a research lab at Adobe in India.
17:28:51 And I was doing those research projects, but I can talk more about later on. But it comes with.
17:28:58 Some additional responsibilities, you need to kind of, defend how your work is good for the company and all that kind of a mix of product and research.
17:29:11 And at that point, I just did not want to do that. I, I wanted to focus more on this as an academia seem like a better place to do that.
17:29:18 So, DHD made sense at that age, but I have always been inclined with going back to the industry in my internships have been in the industry and now joining the industry again as a full time.
17:29:30 Those are all really fair points and you know. Coming back to the section like, you know.
17:29:37 I or anybody you know coming or deciding for any of their graduate degrees or doctorate degrees and if you had that option of taking up a course at USC.
17:29:47 Yeah.
17:29:47 You know, everyone would just go by the blink of the eye that, okay, that's like the best and best of the best.
17:29:55 Like, you know, you get the best out of there. So what was your you know, formula of, you know, choosing USC and that particular course and the curriculum and everything and how it did, you know, help you all through.
17:30:10 Yes.
17:30:10 Yeah, yeah, as far as choosing the curriculum or choosing the specific computer science program at S is considered.
17:30:20 I can cook up some exams some good answer that hey high overlap with my interests and everything made sense.
17:30:30 I talked to the professors and stuff but that's not how it works. Essentially, so you apply to a whole range of universities and you try to have a good diversity.
17:30:40 And also, and you find any kind of place which has some overlap. With what you're doing, even if not a high overlap and then you know cities come back in this case I had 2 options and I can really talk more about that decision.
17:30:59 USC also gave a fellowship. So that comes with a little bit more money. A little bit more freedom.
17:31:06 Then the standard RA or DA positions. Let me know if you want to talk more about that, but, And so that decision between doing a PhD.
17:31:19 At USC, which gives you all the options. I talked to the off offices, of course, had an interview and that went well, They're very supportive. Very good.
17:31:28 I actually was. In 2,019 in February before joining USC they gave me an admin and I was just visiting . S.
17:31:41 Adobe sent me for some conference and by that time the in admit had come come in so I actually visited Los Angeles and spent one day at USC.
17:31:51 Usually they have visit days for PhD students. But I could not come during that day, but I had a private visit day, I guess you can say.
17:32:01 And, it was very nice to meet the team. So, and the lab group.
17:32:06 So that was good. And so I chose this instead of a master's that would lead up.
17:32:12 To a PhD later on that may or may not. And I've seen cases where that can also be stressful because it's not guaranteed if you know the advice that I got.
17:32:22 If you know the advice that I got at that point was if you know that you want to do a PhD.
17:32:26 If you know the advice that I got at that point was if you know that you want to do a PhD, just go for it directly.
17:32:27 They're always like options of mastering out later on. I think talk more that's of interest.
17:32:32 Yeah, so I know like you mentioned about the TN I think the fellowship side so If you want to elaborate more on that end because that helped you chose this one. So we wanted to know more.
17:32:48 What was your perspective?
17:32:44 Yeah. Yeah, sure. So there are 3 kinds of, ways in which you can get funded as a PhD student.
17:32:54 Standard ways, I guess. One is research assistance, and that's where your advisers lab group.
17:33:06 Is paying for your statement. So this statement is more or less the same between these 3 categories. Bit higher but it's it the difference is what's the source of that money so in an RRIP your lab and your advisor they pay for it they have got funding grants from some of the institutions like NSF or, they pay for it.
17:33:34 They have got funding grants from some of the institutions like NSF or DARPA and they have got funding grants from some of the institute's like NSF or DAPP, they have got funding grants from some of the institutes like NSF or DARPA and they would be paying for the money for TA Ship.
17:33:43 That's our teaching, you're acting as a teaching assistant, you will be helping out with, a professor to conduct a course, maybe take office hours and create those exams and also check those exams and stuff like that or maybe take lectures.
17:33:51 And in those cases the university pays you this type in because it'll thing conduct these courses and the 3rd is fellowship which is also which also in my case came from different, comes from different sources where my case came from, the school itself, a different department is called Annenberg.
17:34:10 Fellowship so it came from some communication department and and so it kind of comes with a little bit more money.
17:34:21 Than our and also, some more freedom because you are not being paid by your you can choose to if things don't work out between you 2 for the 1st year or so you can choose to change advice because you're just like being paid guaranteed payment from the school rather than the advisor so you can move around a lot.
17:34:46 There's more freedom. I did not do that, but if things are not going that well and you decide to move around, you can.
17:34:53 It's easier. Those are 3 those are 3 options. Yeah.
17:35:03 Yeah.
17:34:56 Okay. You get like choose between the 3 options or is it like depending on your profile depending on how your entire package you know has been selected as part of the university it's they give you automatically like just wanting to know that
17:35:13 Good question. So for a subset of, students while, when they admit the students for a subset of them, they offer fellowships that, okay, you look like a good candidate.
17:35:26 Would also offer fellowship and give you. And the some of the freedom that comes with it. And usually we have mandatory, again this can vary from school to school but at USC we have mandatory 2 semesters of the issue but at USC we have mandatory 2 semesters of the issue.
17:35:46 But at USC, we have mandatory 2 semesters of DHC, we have mandatory 2 semesters of T.
17:35:48 So I have to be a DIY 2 semesters of D. So I have to be a DA in my, that's a part of my PhD requirement.
17:35:51 I have to be a TF for at least 2 sentences. And so the, so it's ultimately TA, so it can be a lot of work.
17:35:57 So you want to if you're not on a fellowship, I think in my case as well the money that came up with, the money that came up with the like the higher amount of sum.
17:36:09 I think in my case as well, the money that came up with the like the higher amount of sum remains, the remain fixed.
17:36:09 For the next 4 years or so but But the freedom part, the source of the money, when I said that this course is school, that's only for 1st year.
17:36:20 So, the school kind of only covered the difference. From the second year. So, but usually you want to, be on as our fellowship as much as you can.
17:36:32 Potentially comes with lesser additional jobs and that can also depend on what kind of funding source your lab goes for.
17:36:42 So some variations over there as well. But in my case, I was extremely lucky as in our ship.
17:36:49 A lab was kind of well funded. In COVID. The funding was tricky.
17:36:58 So once, my advisors asked me that, Hey, can you do a TRIP for the next semester so that the school pays while they're trying to get more funding.
17:37:06 And so this is the conversation with their advisors, but I had to do it anyway, like at least 2 businesses I have to do anyway.
17:37:14 So it kind of worked out, but apart. From all that. You would want to be on ownership.
17:37:22 In my case, our leadership came with no additional responsibilities that depends on the funding source. I could just focus on my research.
17:37:25 Yeah.
17:37:28 But in some cases, Our worship can come with. Additional software engineering work they're trying to like compete in some competitions and so that the funding continues on the feature.
17:37:42 So it depends on where you are basically.
17:37:51 Yes.
17:37:43 Okay, so just wanting to like clear the air here so you know. Like a few set of folks get that fellowship initially with their like when they get the off letter but you know for example like you said that you have to work as a TA for the 1st 2 semester so is it like easy for you to work as a TA for the 1st 2 semester so is it like easy for you to have that switch to semester. So is it like easy for you to have that switch towards RA?
17:38:06 Like is it that easy with USC that you can apply to different So reach out to them and get that.
17:38:14 And also for that matter, if you're working under one department. Like you tagged under one department, can you still be an ARE for the different professor under a different department?
17:38:25 Like is that any like, do you have anything around this? If not, then I'll explain.
17:38:29 Yeah, 1st of all, one clarification. As a, you don't have to be the DF for 1st 2 semesters.
17:38:39 You need to from the PhD requirements perspective, you need to be at TA for at least 2 semesters throughout your PhD.
17:38:47 It usually you get when you get hired as a PhD student you there is some adviceer. Who wants to date you and they plan out their funding they say that okay I have funding for 2 students and, but I, so if I like 3 students for one of them, I can say that, okay, let's try for fellowship for this guy because I can only find 2 on my ownership funds.
17:39:15 But usually, advisors plan that out and they hire students in such a way that they can like find them through our And it doesn't seem that, possible that here if I'm part of this department but get funded from.
17:39:32 Somebody else they have their own students to find so that seems not seems tricky but there are like co-advising situations happening all the time.
17:39:41 Even I am code voiced, I was, like I have 2 advisors, but they are in the same lab, but it's possible for people to be code wise for, from like 2 advisors and different lab groups and maybe they manage their funding together.
17:39:56 I don't know how that works, but it's possible that they both find that guy. And also it's in some cases I think they also have like a primary advisor who funds them and then the second thing is kind of like just help.
17:40:09 Got it, got it. So it's like you have to be lucky to land up under the department or the advisor which are being funded well like all You switch it up as a TA.
17:40:21 In that course so that at least till the time they manage the funding you still get paid under the college.
17:40:27 Yeah, yeah, I mean. I would not say lucky because these are the only ways you would get the admission.
17:40:35 So if and if the advisor would have their own budget. From what I know that hey, I can find this I can fund 2 students and so okay I'm giving out to these 2 guys or something.
17:40:49 And, and, and, so these are the only 2 ways, but, and in, so these are the only 2 ways, but, and in, when you join in the future, you can, or like it's possible that the advisor kind of hires a student because the adviser expects that they would get money from the next year so they weren't the surrender root the issue from the 1st day.
17:41:17 I think all sorts of variations are possible but the kids need to do 2 ta and in most of the cases it's a conversation between where your been your advisor and also like various researchers like do you want to like stop working on your like giving less time to your research in the next semester and spend that time on TSIP?
17:41:33 Good time or not. But, you have to do at least 2, but if there are like funding issues in the lab, then, professors often like ask the students to maybe go for more dealerships.
17:41:48 So that just gives some buffer to get additional funds in the lab. Yeah.
17:41:54 Yeah.
17:41:51 That's fair and that's helpful as well for both the parties actually and yeah that's helpful to know more about what are the different sections that you can be getting those things and how you can work alongside.
17:42:04 Yeah.
17:42:04 So, yeah. Okay, getting back to, you know, your main application process.
17:42:15 Huh.
17:42:10 So when you started up with your application process with USC for this particular course, so if you can walk us through like what were the requirements at the time of your application process like.
17:42:21 We know it's like SOPs, LOIs, but how does it differ when it is for a PhD codes?
17:42:28 Like what all did you give up back in 2,019 when you were applying in
17:42:33 Give up.
17:42:34 Like give up as in like For example, I just rephrase of there were there any LOIs that were required, you know, obviously Sop's has to go any sort of test scores, any sort of video interviews, any sort of essays to be submitted.
17:42:49 I don't think of that.
17:42:53 Yeah.
17:43:00 Okay.
17:42:48 Yeah. Yeah, I mean, all of that that you mentioned actually, but I know that after code, like I had GR to offer and everything, with SOP and you actually go down and look at the some professors who have overlap with you.
17:43:10 So you need to mention that hey I've done this this work and then these are the 3 or 4 professors that have a good overlap with me.
17:43:21 And so from the university's perspective, they kind of, I think, in some cases they also have like a literal field on the form that where you mentioned, that, hey, these are the 3 professors I'm interested, that, hey, these are the 3 professors I'm interested with, interested in and your application to those processes and then they can take
17:43:41 a call whether rejecting or accepting or asking you for an interview. In most cases they do some sort of interviews.
17:43:50 With the students. So yeah you just look at the kind of overlap. That you have such work that's happening then you apply based on that but just to say this is very old and I want to say this is very old information.
17:44:06 2019 COVID happened, right? Lots of many things of things don't allow.
17:44:12 But, by far like, do you know like by any chance if you know at least the range or like what sort of range they need as part of GR, or tofu that they require, when you apply for the PhD course.
17:44:26 I do not remember. But I think, usually, from what I have learned all these years, these are more of, Like there's a minimum bar.
17:44:39 Which they would care about. I don't know what the number is, but, once that is met, I don't think any further score helps your case again comes down to your overlap.
17:44:55 And what's the fit? How they think that your profile fits with what they want to do with the money that they have.
17:45:03 Yeah. Yeah.
17:45:03 Yeah. That's fair and I guess probably since 2,019 maybe things would have changed at USC with the scores and everything.
17:45:11 Yeah.
17:45:12 So probably good fit would be to reach out on the website, anyone who is watching it here, you know, go up to the website and see what for different programs they would need the test course for.
17:45:22 Yeah.
17:45:22 Moving ahead, like you mentioned, like they were a couple of instances where you If by any chance input any professor's name that you and him or her have overlap with the work.
17:45:35 So you know had had you gone through any video interviews or anything of that sort.
17:45:39 Yeah, yeah, so I at USC. I had a video just like this, virtual interview with my professor.
17:45:51 And I was in fact, 1st PhD student. So, she kind of greeted me on who I am, where I come from my background and stuff.
17:46:01 And she seemed interested. So she mentioned that, we are trying to apply for a fellowship.
17:46:09 For you as well. So yeah, so there was an interview and then when I came to US, I made all of them in person.
17:46:17 So I had, so, that day involved some guided tours from current students on campus.
17:46:27 Okay this is what we have on campus at USC. It's very nice. And then some lunch and meetings and sessions.
17:46:36 With the existing with the current PhD students at that point and advisors. Yeah, so I kind of an interview.
17:46:45 Yeah.
17:46:48 Yeah.
17:46:45 Yeah, that's fair, I guess, getting to know who. Is coming and he's working on the UN knowing more about the projects that they have done in us and you know matching up with the wavelength.
17:46:59 That's that's completely
17:46:54 Yeah. Yeah. In, just want to add the in person with it was after. Getting the admin.
17:47:05 Yeah.
17:47:13 Hmm.
17:47:05 So in person visit is mostly for the student that, hey, this looks like a good space for yourself.
17:47:13 They don't like. Good, you that ones in person? They just don't know you, I guess.
17:47:20 So it's post.
17:47:31 You know.
17:47:20 And it's anyways you have to spend like many years under them so it's better to be you know be friends and you know have that healthy relationship rather than would not work for another 4 or 5 years.
17:47:34 Okay.
17:47:34 Yeah, I mean. It's again, it's a longer commitment than a master, right?
17:47:40 Okay. Yeah.
17:47:41 So apart from just the work. Or overlap lab environment matters a lot I think and how supportive they are.
17:47:52 These are like, these 2, like I have, I was co-advisors, I mentioned these 2 guys.
17:47:57 Where like academic parents and so it was very very nice always very cooperative and I can give instances where they were actually super cooperative and helpful when I was struggling with something.
17:48:14 And then Yeah, so I mean even the students as well seem very helpful. So along with like lab environment, I think you and the, you know, stuff like which city it is matters because you're there.
17:48:28 It's 5 years of elections. You will want to.
17:48:29 So how was your city experience just going off the roads now? Just how because this is like one thing like when we prep up for our degree programs and when we move to a different country one thing that we go about is what we talked about the curriculum and the process and everything.
17:48:46 Yeah.
17:48:52 Yeah.
17:48:47 Obviously we know more about the you know the AIDS and finances shortly but the next thing that we know more about the you know the age and finances shortly but the next thing that we go about is okay what city is the college in like how welcoming the city is how it's open to job opportunities and and LA seems to be really fun.
17:49:05 So what was your perspective there?
17:49:06 Yeah, yeah, LA is a great place to be a very good choice. Like city wise, I mean.
17:49:09 Okay. Yeah.
17:49:13 I think, compared to the other option that I had, Pittsburgh, I think I made a good decision on that part.
17:49:20 Totally, totally.
17:49:22 Better voice, weather is amazing, but overall, of course, you know, California is great, but it can be very overwhelming in the beginning.
17:49:36 Yeah.
17:49:33 Because you have so much to figure out. I think every student might have said the same thing. And even for you, I guess, I don't know.
17:49:41 But it can be like extremely overwhelming. So you don't worry about the city aspect, but just started like set things up early on.
17:49:59 Yeah.
17:49:50 Bank. Go on. This one was to figure out and then everybody like whatever you do there's always a better thing where somebody comes out who you should have done this I mean come on how would I know how would I know Okay.
17:50:03 Yeah, because you know. You just refer to one person when you come here like Oh, maybe a set of people and then for example if those 6 people have opened the bank account in this time.
17:50:10 Yeah.
17:50:17 Yeah.
17:50:14 So like you would be the 7th one opening it and then the 8th one running down no they have some other records so That's that's that's, and that will go on for yours now I guess.
17:50:24 Credit card or that great car and then oh, better credit history in this country. I mean.
17:50:40 Yeah.
17:50:26 Yeah. Yeah, we have it like I don't know about you, but I haven't done those things like I haven't looked upon my you know the credit reports and everything back in India because it wasn't a thing like your credit report never was checked as part of.
17:50:45 Getting you a place. But here it is. You have to maintain that to have that luxury.
17:50:52 So
17:50:47 And yeah, it's. Kind of crazy. Yeah, so a lot to know. So you kind of forget about the city and just out of settlement.
17:50:59 But then when it was actually time to enjoy the city, COVID happened. This was kind of a weird, a PhD of sorts.
17:51:13 Yeah.
17:51:09 PhD usually a PhD comes up with amazing opportunities to travel the world. Where you're just presenting your stuff in conferences and instead of traveling the world that or everything became virtual for 2 years, that was a mess.
17:51:28 That's great.
17:51:37 Yeah, like, who is this full of it? Yeah.
17:51:26 So I traveled a lot like in my later years last year and I got the chance but in general we used to hike around a lot, we used to hike around a lot LA gives you that opportunity during Yeah, that's 1 thing that you can do.
17:51:42 My roommate, was the one who, knew how to drive. I never drove in India and you need to drive and I like to kind of go move around beyond the university.
17:51:54 And so hiking was one thing that you could do but then my roommate actually, anecdote, he got, kind of was getting married and his fiancee was in Seattle.
17:52:09 So he used to like go to the airport often in cabs were getting very expensive. And they were like because of COVID and stuff.
17:52:17 And so he taught me how to drive so that I can. I can't, I used to be afforded and 7.
17:52:28 Yeah.
17:52:23 That's amazing and that's 1 great thing that you need to learn your like it's a thing like one day you Welcome back to your, your cab.
17:52:35 Prices that okay let's just put it aside and let's just learn instead and get it done and have it on my own.
17:52:42 Yeah. And I'm like still, I can't be more thankful for the gift. To him.
17:52:46 Hey.
17:52:50 I love driving and I turned out. I really loved driving. It's a i can't imagine not driving my life and I'm moving to New York City.
17:52:58 Where would you like that question?
17:53:00 So that's a big decision. It was very difficult. I won't be like I want to drive every day to work that's not gonna happen in any way.
17:53:07 Yeah, that's what my question was. Like, what do you drive in?
17:53:11 Yeah, I have to. Whenever when I got, an offer from Capital One, I was trying to like, see whether it makes sense or not.
17:53:24 Yeah.
17:53:22 I was actually checking if they have rental car benefits. Just to see whether I should join the company. I still.
17:53:28 That's amazing. So, yeah.
17:53:35 Okay.
17:53:29 They do. Well, yeah, but this city life was I could enjoy once I got the car I had a car for one and a half years ahead.
17:53:39 And it was amazing.
17:53:40 That's perfect. Yeah. Okay, so coming back to the major question it, and you know, we had like a good discussion on the car thing but let's see how you get that love for driving back in New York City so I would really catch upon that one.
17:53:58 So yeah, the one thing that I wanted to ask here is because, You did your undergrad and then, you know, worked up in India and, you know, had that experience into the industry as well.
17:54:14 And then you decided to move for your PhD. So anything that you wanted to talk about that you prepped up at that time like back in 2,019 that you I think that you know, those were couple of preps that I did before coming for my doctorate.
17:54:28 So anything of that sort you wanted to share.
17:54:49 Okay.
17:54:34 Preparation wise, nothing specific comes to mind, but I mean, it's mostly, the advice that you get from senior folks that how they managed at Adobe in my team itself there are so many seniors such as who actually did their PSTs in US.
17:54:54 And so I had like, Irene separate one on once with all of them that, Hey, what advice do you have for me, separate one on ones with all of them that hey, what advice do you have for me in PST and, how do you think, I should, plan out more 5 years but then like the best of the ice that I got was just go there and
17:55:14 see I mean everyone's journey is so different you will have your own issues when you and you will have to figure out how to deal with them.
17:55:25 And I actually did have. Unique issues. Which I had to deal with. And I can talk more about.
17:55:31 Yeah. That's, that's, it's, it, we will be picking up on that as well.
17:55:36 Yeah.
17:55:38 And, next big thing is I know it's PhD. I know it's a longer duration of course and you know there's division of course work then you walk on your thesis and Love, love, that I may not know.
17:55:48 Yeah.
17:55:51 But one thing that we would really want to know about is that what would the you know finances that were involved.
17:56:01 I really don't want you to drill down much because I know it would not be the same as 2019 to what it is now but something on the range is if you can talk to us about.
17:56:07 Okay. So. Sure.
17:56:11 Yeah.
17:56:14 So you just wanna cover like the kind of stipend I was getting and maybe how are spending the money.
17:56:19 Yeah, just the changes of them, not maybe the exact ones. Yeah.
17:56:22 Yeah, so, we were getting around, $3,000 after tax in Los Angeles.
17:56:30 Every month and that has been has been around that number all this years. And so are you i pay like 1,200 to 1,300 on land.
17:56:44 1st year I was at USC housing and I was paying like a hundred bucks lesson but the house was very bad.
17:56:52 Bedroom one bad very small and not good for 1,200 and but then off from the next year COVID happened and USC came up with.
17:57:05 With very strict requirements. Every morning you wake up, you need to fill out a farm, how you're doing, all the checks and everything.
17:57:13 If you're staying at USC housing, that was just everybody left. So nobody wanted to do that.
17:57:18 And so I found, off campus. Housing and staying with a couple of the folks, 3 bedroom, 3 bub and then I pay like 1,300 for 3 bedroom 3 bath and then I pay like 1,300 for that and we moved around once but it's been similar.
17:57:35 Like you can get, this is a nicer place, like bigger rooms and stuff, but you can of course, And, most of the masters, they're saying they often like, share their rooms as well.
17:57:49 So 2 people in one room and that can actually bring it down to 6 700 per person. Okay.
17:57:56 But I, I didn't think that that was what I wanted to do for 5 years. So, 1,300 and I would say a 3 to 400.
17:58:07 Dollars of $400 of living expenses. And then I would spend Out a lot. So you can, you can like save a thousand bucks, I guess every month I was saving a thousand bucks apart from everything I never like paid anything out of pocket that was actually, So that's 1 of the things that PST is, right?
17:58:33 So, no loans, anything, you're being paid to be here. Although, If you do a master's, after 2 years, you can get them to the industry and maybe on, on some money.
17:58:45 So financially you need to say, you need to, so one thing I often say that you need to really like what you're doing because you're not being paid for it.
17:58:53 So if you don't like what you're doing, it just doesn't make sense. So we've been already and enjoying and not being paid for doesn't make sense.
17:59:00 And, as a must, during a PST as well, there is an option of mastering out there's a verb for it where after 2 years or so.
17:59:10 Course requirements what you're doing for PhD they are sufficient to give you like masked enough credits that you can just apply for a master's and get out of it.
17:59:19 So, then that would be a master's for free, I guess, right? Because you were being paid from day one to do your masters.
17:59:30 So that is an option and people do that. That's very common actually. And, if things don't look good, I know, I know friends who did that, they joined some lab environment and they didn't like it.
17:59:40 They were very toxic, different school, but and they didn't like it and so they thought it's just better to mastered out and then join the company.
17:59:48 So that is an option but of course when you're uplying, you need to have that research experience.
17:59:58 Okay.
17:59:55 It's probably easy to get into a master's than a But if you get in, then you always have an option to master out of things.
18:00:05 That's completely fair and that's like the best part about the doctorate degrees is you know you don't have to put anything out from your pockets it's like the best part about the doctorate degrees is you know you don't have to put anything out from your pockets it's basically the work that you do is actually pays up for you like it should actually because the only commitment that you have is the number of
18:00:22 years that's it that you're giving up.
18:00:24 Yeah, yeah, but still I would say like financially, doesn't make you're not here for the money but you're just being probably paid to you're not paying anything out of pocket but you're not not paid well compared to let's say the industry standards or what you would earn in academia later on.
18:00:44 Yeah.
18:00:45 So, there's a trade off that you need to figure it out. Right.
18:00:47 Good. That's completely fair. And, I know there's no like, like fees or anything of that involved that, you know, you're actually paying to the university.
18:01:00 Yeah.
18:01:12 Yeah.
18:00:59 It's something that only university pays you, There like any scope of scholarships or any sort of financial aids that you know PhD students fall under maybe not at the office stage that you know PhD students fall under maybe not at the office stage but maybe like after 2 years you.
18:01:14 Get hold of any scholarship, anything of that. So.
18:01:15 Yeah. Yeah. So the, there are possibilities for that. So one is stuff that university itself gives you just for example in my case I was an Hello, it comes with slightly more money.
18:01:32 And but that was from USC, right? But you can apply for, and it's kind of encouraged because it's a good experience.
18:01:40 To to sell out your stuff. And, to a different person. And, so every, like, I think for 2 or 3 years I have.
18:01:51 Right and most of the opportunities which are What's applying? I'm the industry. And like all the Meta, Google and all they release their AI into scholarships or fellowships I think AI PHD for through, but it's quite competitive.
18:02:12 So, but there are options like that. I, the max that I could do. Was I was.
18:02:16 A finalist for Meta in the last year. So, that means that I got, got an email that, hey, congratulations.
18:02:24 You're the finalist, but, you, you have not won, but you are the finalist for Media. Fellowship.
18:02:32 I was sad. I mean, doesn't come with any money. Okay, we will put your name on a blog.
18:02:38 Okay, good to have, but I would like some more money, but, so there are some options. Okay, good to have, but I would like some more money.
18:02:46 But, so, yeah, so there are some options quite competitive so you can't rely on that, but it does come with some more money.
18:02:48 And of course, I think a bigger. Advantage is more networking. So often these come with opportunities to interact with the team.
18:02:59 You can also like do internships. With those teams and these companies and they also give you free funds to travel for conferences and all that.
18:03:08 It's nice.
18:03:08 So it comes with nice bugs. So what's applying as an experience is that but quite
18:03:14 Okay, like you mentioned like from the initial time that you were part of couple of conferences as well that you that you traveled for like any conferences like any And that stood out for you that you want to talk about just one or 2.
18:03:28 Sure. So my, so I have I think, I don't that stood out were.
18:03:38 So I think as far as the conference experience is considered, okay, they can be very similar to each other.
18:03:45 Yeah.
18:03:51 Yeah.
18:04:00 Oh nice.
18:03:47 One that stood out as far as the conference experience again is considered is one in ACL, 2023 association for 3 in Toronto Canada where instead of presenting a paper.
18:04:06 I was a program chair for workshop. So we organized a workshop where other people submitted their papers and we kind of did the whole review.
18:04:18 So I was like organizing it for the past year. I got the sponsorship and funding. So it was like close to my heart and a new experience where you are on the other side of the table.
18:04:28 Hello.
18:04:26 Get a lot more networking I interact with you invite those speakers and panels you have panel sessions and you can interact with those.
18:04:34 Yeah.
18:04:36 Esteemed folks in the community as well so that was
18:04:39 And that's amazing and then you head on to a different country and then you actually meet up you know a lot of folks there like like minded folks out there as well and obviously you know
18:04:49 Yeah. But upon that, just to mention that, just to complete, this was from the conference.
18:05:08 Okay.
18:04:56 But I said, as I said, conferences can be quite similar. Thing that most stood out was, from the country perspective, was in Croatia.
18:05:11 And I was in Dubrovic. Which was the place where they shot Kings landing in Game of Thrones, very pretty city.
18:05:19 Yeah
18:05:21 I had I had a few days of Switzerland as well my 1st year. So that's the one that I would rank higher than the one where I organized the workshop.
18:05:33 That was the peak of my career, but I would rank the other one.
18:05:37 I agree, like the experiences would be different because you know You have PhD candidates and you know at different levels from every country.
18:05:58 Yeah.
18:05:46 So you know you being part of USC and then Canada or do you know Croatia for that matter and you get like a lot of more perspectives and as you said net working is key you don't know where how things can actually, you know.
18:06:02 Cool. Yes.
18:06:02 Yeah, talking to people is early on as well. Like my advice is so I used to have some, worries that, Hey, whatever I'm working on.
18:06:14 There's not a lot of community in that space at USC and my advisors kind of. Mentioned that people find their community across the world during that PST you meet people even in other universities as well and you might find people who have similar interests in other places as well.
18:06:40 Nothing to worry about and that's exactly what happened. Like, I got in touch, like, and that has in a number of additional collaborations with external universities throughout these, 5 years.
18:06:57 So very grateful for all the networking. Yeah.
18:07:00 I agree because with all these yours and with all these episodes that I've done. What I've heard, the maximum is, you know, networking is the key here.
18:07:10 Yep.
18:07:15 Yeah.
18:07:11 Oh, that's the next step to every good time. So it's best that you have that networking capabilities.
18:07:19 If not, try to have it as soon as possible. Because that works the best here. Like that's what's the quickest here actually in that.
18:07:26 So I know we've talked about a lot about your course, the scholarships, the different layers of how you can be part of the course and .
18:07:37 The finances, division, everything. So I guess we have covered everything before, you know You get that off a letter and you move to the next stage of acquiring that US visa that f 1 visa you acquired to come here.
18:07:52 So I know, 2,019 would not fetch a lot of experiences because things really went. Downhill with you know a lot of lesser appointments and a lot of you know people not getting it so how is your experience back in 2019 with your take for
18:08:12 Oh, yeah, for me, it was kind of smooth. Nothing interesting to say that my application went through like you have to be proactive to start the things at a good time.
18:08:25 And it also depends on when you get the admit. In my case, I got it very early in January.
18:08:31 February timeframe so I could start the application in India. I think it took a few couple months but I went to Janet and I got the appointment easily so it was smooth for me the visa application was not an issue but this is something that Like even though that was smooth.
18:08:55 Yeah.
18:08:53 This is what you signed up for in our life, right? So. This is going to be the constant thing on our lines.
18:09:00 Yeah.
18:09:06 Okay.
18:09:00 So let's see. And very recently when I was actually renewing my visa. In India it was like 5 years over 5 I got the visa for 5 years and that's probably mostly enough and even though from what I know even the folks who come here for masters, they also get 5 years, right?
18:09:21 So, but that's enough for them to do 2 years of masters in 3 years of OPD, as BSP, and that's not.
18:09:30 Renewed my visa early this year and I was stuck in India. Because the passport just got delayed.
18:09:36 Okay.
18:09:37 The go, I called them and I was like, hey, where is I my flight? It's in 2 weeks. Where is the passport?
18:09:42 Okay.
18:09:46 Yeah.
18:09:45 And they're like, we don't care you should not have booked the flight. Really good. And that was the response.
18:09:54 So, thank you for the help us. Yeah, you feel blessed.
18:09:51 Like really scared like Yeah, it is like I am also visiting India like I came in for 2022 so I'd be heading home this year.
18:10:04 Yeah.
18:10:10 Yeah.
18:10:01 I am really scared. I am I am heading home during December. I have to come back in January, so I'm not sure how things would actually function at the holiday period because I've seen really nasty experiences of people this year that actually they had to sit extra 2 weeks in India because they did not get Yep.
18:10:18 Yeah, same for me. Same for me. I was giving my job interviews at that point and I had interviews scheduled assuming that I would be back in US and I didn't want to like cancel them.
18:10:30 Yeah.
18:10:41 Yeah.
18:10:31 So those 2 weeks I was literally on US time. I worked with my family was so supportive. I used to have dinner when they are having breakfast and then I know we had different menus and stuff.
18:10:44 No, I know it's a difficult. Oh yeah, oh my god, PST schedule is, difficult to manage back from India.
18:10:54 Yeah.
18:10:51 Yeah. Almost officer. Yeah, that's for 2 weeks, but then the passport came in.
18:10:58 So that was good.
18:10:58 Yeah, it's it's really difficult like I know it would have been a smooth process back in 2,090, but just one question on your Visa application.
18:11:08 I know that every other detail goes about the same but just one question on your Visa application I know that every other detail goes about the same but as a PhD student I know that every other detail goes about the same but as a PhD student, I know that every other detail goes about the same.
18:11:17 But as a PhD student, I know like what we discussed that there is no such piece these things.
18:11:23 But as a PhD student, I know like what we discussed that there is no such thing. But as a PhD student, I know like what we discussed that there is no such thing. But as a PhD student, I know like what we discussed that there is no such piece thing.
18:11:28 So what are you actually like showing
18:11:28 Yeah, yeah, as a PhD student that part is extremely easy because you say that hey I've got this I 20 from the university and the I.
18:11:39 20 says that hey we are paying total expenses for one year, 74 K and the USD pays 74 K for on the student $0 so it kind of shows explicitly that they will cover your finances so you can just show that but along with that you I think I showed some, bank account statements that I have from working at Adobe for those 2 years.
18:12:07 And I also showed connections to India. and you need to have all those, finances.
18:12:17 Yeah.
18:12:14 Yeah, that's for sure. It has to be there. So yeah, I just wanted to touch upon that point that if anyone has that, you know, thing like what do we because as master student we usually show those finances section.
18:12:26 Yeah, yeah.
18:12:28 And show that we could survive those many years. But yeah, that's thanks. Thanks for sharing that.
18:12:33 Kind of easier for PST.
18:12:35 Yeah, it's very easy. Like you would say, can you please check the I 20 and the notes?
18:12:39 Yeah, Yeah.
18:12:54 Oh really? Okay. Yeah.
18:12:40 So you know, it works for, for, for you, Okay, so, coming back, like usually the visa thing is like the biggest elephant of the room when we talk about in the previous episodes with master's students because We do those things a lot and then people coming after COVID it's it's a thing to get appointments and all those and everything.
18:13:02 Hmm. Yeah.
18:13:04 So it's really. Like tackling the elephant in the room. So, ahead, I guess, we are good to move from the college and the visa part and obviously with done now we're almost close to the finish line here of getting that degree done.
18:13:20 So 1st of all, I just wanted to like let the folks know from you as well like because I just was coming through your LinkedIn profile and I could see one of the internship back in Singapore.
18:13:34 So I really want you to talk about your internship experiences and if any you gained during your PhD program as well.
18:13:43 Yeah. So, Undergrad from 2013 to 2017. Right.
18:13:51 I went for. One internship at the end of my second year, during my undergrad.
18:13:57 That was Singapore. I was working, as kind of for the search and turn at center for quantum technologies in national, which is Singapore.
18:14:09 Don't ask any word I was working on. I don't remember any of it. You can ask me.
18:14:11 Hey, would not understand as well.
18:14:17 Hello.
18:14:15 You can ask me how good the city was. I loved it. Was a great experience. I wonder how the, how it's worked I accomplished.
18:14:24 By the time I actually could understand what we are working on. The was over. So, but I would do it again.
18:14:31 Just for Singapore. Just for 3 months in Singapore. It was well paid, free paid.
18:14:35 And, Very comfortable and a good time. Second, your internships is mostly just to get a research experience, go to a different lab and see how it works out.
18:14:45 And I applied, I think I just restarted through email or something. To the professor who was leading that works out.
18:14:55 And also one of the seniors back then was working in that. So I think that in some cases.
18:15:01 Next in terms of was Adobe research. And, that kind of get you get in through if you maintain a high CGP, they give, offers to top 5 students.
18:15:16 Actually sat for a couple of interviews on campus for Microsoft and in Goldman Sachs as well. I was like, no, no, no, I'm not gonna take this offer directly.
18:15:26 I will sit for internships, in, Microsoft over the weekend. So this was a Saturday and Sunday.
18:15:33 So Friday, Adobe gave me an offer. And direct offered through the, CGPA.
18:15:38 They give it for like a few students and then Saturday and Sunday I sat for interviews. I mean, no, no, Microsoft and Goodman Sex and both of them rejected me and Sunday evening.
18:15:53 That's why it's completely fine just to know the experience.
18:15:52 Please where I'm going and it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it was the best decision ever, actually.
18:16:03 And from what from the kind of conversations that I've had. Most of the internships are software engineer where they kind of focus on a specific aspect and the internship at Adobe in Bangalore was the research industry was actually very well structured and it was an amazing experience.
18:16:19 So much so that I, for almost 4th with my family. My family had some awareness about masters in US and at that point, 17 they were like, okay, a platform master is go to US and my brothers, his, his friends had done that and they were like very happy and everything.
18:16:38 Oh, master and doing great, having great jobs. My brother is like 3 years older. So they were like, okay, do this.
18:16:46 But then I had to like fight in my family that, hey, Adobe has given me a full time offer and I would join them.
18:16:52 I don't care. So, and I was there for 2 years and Adobe was kind of like, a masters for me.
18:17:00 Usually people use masters as a way to decide whether they want to do a PhD or not.
18:17:04 And so those 2 years, were like we were deciding some most of the people So, during Ruby, like, during that time.
18:17:15 They hire junior associates. PTECH, graduates who work with, senior researchers at that point.
18:17:26 And most of the folks, they kind of tend to decide on higher studies that what they want to do either masters or PhD.
18:17:34 I applied mostly for a PST. And, It's kind of, very common to do in that setup.
18:17:42 And then, after joining TST, my 1st internship was with Amazon and that was the team sits in Sunnyvale.
18:17:52 It was very close to kind of word I was involved with at USC in building dialogue systems. It's kind of the space like conversational systems.
18:18:03 I was working in the Alexa team, it's kind of the space like conversational assistance. I was working in the Alexa team there and the goal was to It was very interesting actually, very more, natural, how to have more natural conversations with Alexa in the future when, an assistant is a part of a multi party meeting, setup.
18:18:22 So, very interesting. And the second one, actually I should also talk about this might be helpful.
18:18:32 So when, So for the 1st for research internships usually the goal is to kind of get a good research experience but also try and publish some of that work.
18:18:43 And in some conference, you pick a problem which is kind of doable. Usually it's not you won't be able to finish the thing in 3 months.
18:18:53 So you, try to keep working on it after the internship. And you try to publish it with the team.
18:19:01 That's the goal. It did not work out with Amazon and I won't want to talk about that because I think the core reason for that was Okay.
18:19:12 There was a less of a. So the problem that we picked up was not central. To the agendas of 13 that was like the my mentors at Amazon and so I think I there's a there's a lesser support from the team it was as if I am just working on something myself on a weekend apart from my PhD work when I was back.
18:19:41 After the internship so that just did not scale up. And my next internship was with, Google.
18:19:50 In New York City. By the way the 1st one was during COVID. The team since the Sunni well bar it was removed from Los Angeles.
18:19:58 And, The second one was Google NVC and that was in person, 2022.
18:20:06 Somewhere between 2 and then again working in something similar dialogue systems. And I got a great support from the team even after the internship very good experience of course I was actually also a part-time employee at Google just so that I can get like in the fall semester after my summer internship so that I can get a part-time employee at Google just so that I can get, like in the fall semester after my summer internship so that I
18:20:35 can, that's something which is a possibility, so that I can get access to the internal resources and I can like finish the work and there was good support from the team and then we ended up actually publishing network later on.
18:20:45 So yeah, good experiences. I deliberately wanted. I only wanted to, in turn in the industry.
18:20:53 I don't think I even like explored in turning in some research lab. For the years when I was not in turning anywhere.
18:21:03 I was at my lab at USC and we have some program where we host undergrad in terms from other universities.
18:21:15 In the US. So I was mentoring those in terms and doing a couple of research projects that are like aligned with my PhD.
18:21:22 So that's a good opportunity. And may not happen in all the cases, but we used to have those interns come in and we can, And also as as the Stipend is considered you the stipend that you get usually in the fall or spring semesters.
18:21:43 That I think is 50%. That's called but in the summer you can do 100% ownership so you get toys the stipend even if you just stay in your lab at USC.
18:22:03 Yeah.
18:22:01 So that's I'm not sure how it works. In other universities but this was oh it worked in our case so but yeah good experiences I wish I like Maybe got more chances.
18:22:12 One, in the last year, 2023, I did not go out for internship.
18:22:18 They, Heart process there was that. I was actually trying for some, but they were like so far from what I was doing at USC.
18:22:30 So and the job market was tricky, layoffs happening everything and people even if you have an internship There was no guarantee for the conversion offer and stuff after the internship.
18:22:45 The things were very uncertain. So it would be like I am giving these 3 months with the company. And it's very likely that I won't even get an offer afterwards and the work that I'm doing is also not like helping my helping me make any progress in a PhD.
18:23:04 So it just did not make sense to do that instead I stayed in my lab mentored some students I had a meeting with my advisors before the summer that hey what projects can we do so that I can get out of it quickly and we focus on those projects in the summer.
18:23:20 And that kind of worked out.
18:23:20 Yeah, and I guess, so I need 23 was majorly, you know, for you like obviously the job market which thing but also to you know cover up with your like
18:23:34 I'm just skipping on that term, but you know more of your write up that you are all ready to you know submit you know more of your write up that you are all ready to you know submit i'm just missing out Designation, yeah.
18:23:44 The the dissertation you mean? Yeah.
18:23:47 So, you know, it's more of, you know, focusing on those things as well.
18:23:49 Yeah, yeah, so right after somewhere I did my thesis proposal. That's like the stage before your Tsis proposal is like you say, I've done this work in these last 4 years and these 2 1 or 2 projects are remaining I'll do this and then I get out of it. Are you okay with that?
18:24:09 You say that in a 45 min presentation to a committee of 5. Professors 4 or 5 and they were okay with it.
18:24:17 So you give it next the next year to try to just manage those projects and do your defense. So kind of worked out.
18:24:24 I used the project that I started in the summer. 4 my proposal and looked on that.
18:24:30 So, you know, that there was a amazing like, plateau of internships that you've done with amazing companies and you know a lot of experience has been gained from there.
18:24:41 So because we've touch base. A little bit on the job market as well and I know you are employed now you would be starting soon in a month.
18:24:49 But how was your job experience you know with the market and with the market now and last year how was your experience with that and with you being part of capital one from next month, like next to next month, how was your experience in that?
18:25:02 Yeah, yeah, so things, things were still tricky early this year, although things are getting better.
18:25:13 But still tricky less in many cases there are very very weird situations like in some cases either they need somebody, right now.
18:25:25 So, just join tomorrow. Immediate because they have all the push from large language model, start GPT and how they're doing this kind of scaling of their teams.
18:25:35 We want you to join tomorrow. But that just doesn't work. For me like I have my defense to do I have to write my dissertation I didn't even start on that till that point.
18:25:47 And, so that just that mentality that right the way joined right away that didn't work and then on the other end of the spectrum there were some teams who were like okay we have a hiring please so I actually reached out to my mentors from those internships and, it's, so I actually reached out to my mentors from those internships. So I actually reached out to my mentors from those internships.
18:26:12 And, it's, mostly comes down to networking as we discussed, right?
18:26:16 So I reached out to those mentors and either those are hiding freeze or no options and that specific team is not hiding.
18:26:19 So, it was a struggle because where you worked, that's a core, of connection but that didn't work out so the primary thing that I had to do was expand the scope of companies that I'm looking for.
18:26:37 And Cap for capital one. This was also through a referral from some professor USC.
18:26:46 There was actually there's someone who used to lead a lab at USC. The big lab with many smaller subgroups at USC and he moved to Amazon and then he moved to, capital one.
18:27:00 So he's a capital one leading that AI group, which I'm joining now. So some connections that all are in ever talk to that person but I think that's how they get in garden but but yeah, so it's through the network that you try to exploit.
18:27:15 When the market situation is tricky and you expand your scope. That hey, okay, not just the core tech companies, but their options in other cases as well.
18:27:27 There are other industries that are more stable. Capital one is one unique case where building those.
18:27:34 Huge AI systems is kind of not as central to their business as, for these other tech companies, but still there's something they want to incorporate.
18:27:47 That's the kind of team that I'm joining. So this still had a opportunities they were trying to build their team.
18:27:52 Okay.
18:27:53 For build their research team. It's kind of I'm expecting to work again at the intersection of research and similar to Adobe but let's see how it works out this time yes
18:28:06 Yeah, it sounds all really interesting. I would not go up to those sections like obviously. The role does align with your curriculum that you have talked over for the past 1 h.
18:28:18 Yeah.
18:28:18 I know it aligns and You also mentioned that you know it does not aligns to the main product line and main services that they do.
18:28:27 But it's something more on the research side that you can build up something.
18:28:33 Yeah.
18:28:30 Yeah, so just to add on to it just so the team that I'm running they are trying to use these live language models to improve the products but it's still I think you they have an established line, they're not completing right in that domains, I think.
18:28:48 It's a good space to be in.
18:28:49 Yeah, I agree. So that basically covers a lot of like I guess every aspect of 5 years of your life and you know with you talking about the application process, the journey and how networking helped you with all these things and then job market.
18:29:08 Yeah.
18:29:10 What's 10 but you somehow made it as well and made it from LA to invoice now so you know that's like a good rate switch from West Coast to East Coast.
18:29:19 Let's see.
18:29:19 The last thing we would, Like I would really wanted to end it on a good note with you like if you could share it.
18:29:27 With the incoming international folks. Who are making up all planning of a doctorate degrees in USC.
18:29:34 Okay.
18:29:36 So any last advices being part of the podcast that you want to give out.
18:29:42 Yeah, I mean, as far as PhD admits are considered, Once you get like the initial process can be very random.
18:29:52 There can be so many. That decide who gets the admin, it might not be. Personal so you just apply broadly so it's possible one very concrete example is let's say you apply you sitting in India you think that oh this professor looks great.
18:30:13 Matches perfectly in the profile and you will spend hours studying their papers and then you apply and mention their name.
18:30:20 We expecting for them to like get back. But then you don't know on the back end. There's somebody who worked on an internship with them.
18:30:31 There was some USC student or somebody else who they actually worked with and they are they are just gonna give that position to that person.
18:30:39 The position may not even be open for you back in India. So there's like, it's, it's, it's hard to even know.
18:30:47 These things because professors don't have the time to reply to your emails and all that unless you really catch their eye with some tricks I don't know on start GPT but but I feel the process very random so you apply broadly and you see what happens that's 1 thing and try to when you get the admin try to assess if you have options we don't have the option great users going there if
18:31:14 you have an option try to access. The lab environment that matters a lot. Apart from the research over that.
18:31:23 And for the search world, I think when you're applying and also once you get the admin, it's good to see the look at the exact papers.
18:31:32 That not just what they have said on the website. Not just with the mentioned on the website but look at exact papers and ask yourself if you are willing to publish.
18:31:43 Similar papers in the future. So I think that's an advice that I got a long time back.
18:31:49 And that's really can give you a concrete piece of knowledge about how the lab functions. Along with that advice or else comes to mind I guess PhD is something as I mentioned like it's a longer term commitment so don't take you will need to like it just want to recreate that point and try to maintain a good, work life.
18:32:15 Balance just so that it is scalable and also like, engage with the, local community.
18:32:25 Hello.
18:32:26 So it's, there is a, there is a lot of things that I've seen in many cases people just only interact with.
18:32:34 Folks from there but I think you can miss out on a lot of the exposure there are positives, there are positives, a lot of the exposure.
18:32:46 There are positives, which you can take in from people from others. Parts of the world.
18:32:48 And it ultimately also like broadens your, mindset. Like I've like during COVID for instance like I've over here I've joined organizations at USC where I was working wherever I was interacting with people from all over the world.
18:33:09 Celebrating their festivals and stuff with them. And I've seen getting covered some of the folks in India.
18:33:17 Being racist towards Chinese for instance. And And, that is something that just doesn't come from you because you're celebrating Chinese New Year with them.
18:33:29 It's kind of, it kind of broadens your, gives you that exposure from different cultures.
18:33:35 So I think that's something which is unique. To US and you should take that option.
18:33:44 Yes.
18:33:41 Yeah, it, it is full of diversity and, like, like coming from India, like, you know, we are not exposed to a lot of diversities when we sit down to class, but here I was exposed to a lot of folks from different countries, different cultures.
18:33:57 Yeah.
18:34:05 Yeah.
18:33:58 And it was really enlightening for me to learn from them from their experiences, knowing their cultures, their festivals, telling and you know all of that together into one land that is US.
18:34:10 Yeah.
18:34:10 So that was like this part to actually interact with folks. And that's how you actually interact with folks.
18:34:13 Exactly.
18:34:15 And that's how you actually interact with folks. And that's how you actually know about folks that, okay, That's this, that's that or this happens, that happens.
18:34:20 Same.
18:34:19 So. And you know, somehow you getting all the lingos as well. I know that's really fun so
18:34:27 Yeah.
18:34:25 Yeah, it's really fun. And it's like, I think, I'm not saying to like forget where you're coming from and stuff, be grounded, but there's still a lot to learn.
18:34:39 Even like simple things as. Registries during weddings. I love that concept. Like, and also there is something called meal trains.
18:34:47 Are you aware of that? So when let's say are you aware of that?
18:34:52 I guess I've heard it but Not exactly, yeah. Yeah.
18:34:54 Yeah. So basically, some of my friends had their kids, recently and like last few years.
18:35:05 And there's a concept of meal trains where everybody like the family is already going through a lot there's a lot for them to do rather than disturbing them going to their home everybody like signs up for meals they would prepare meals and for the next 2 weeks they say okay you stay lunch from my side I would prepare something and bring drop your place or I like if you can't be there in person.
18:35:32 yeah, like for Friday evening, dinner on me, $30, door dash from my side, gift card from my side and so like, so people like these are very nice things to adopt actually.
18:35:42 I think there's a lot to learn from other cultures. It's, we should not lose our one.
18:35:49 Yeah.
18:35:49 Yeah, with that being said, everyone just learn cooking as well because It's you have to cook for yourself.
18:35:56 Nobody else will come down and cook for you.
18:36:05 Yeah
18:35:56 Yeah. Like I, I can give a very nice, anecdote here like, early on, my mother, like I was, I had never go back in India, like even at Adobe.
18:36:09 S.
18:36:10 At Adobe like we used to get food like in the office and used to quad it. On the weekends.
18:36:14 In, there like you get food in your offices like it's a area.
18:36:18 Yeah. And then I used to order on the weekends. Right over here, my mom Give me a spoon. Okay.
18:36:29 Yeah.
18:36:29 And then the same spoon. My mom hired some spoon and she gave me the same, spoon so that we used to say, okay, one and a half or one of, salt and Yeah.
18:36:44 Yeah.
18:36:39 I have same oh my god so when I got that spice box back from India so you know wherever like because I used to get like recipes on WhatsApp, you know, okay, so would build.
18:36:52 Yeah.
18:36:51 Step 2 step 4 step 5. So it's everywhere. I didn't have tablespoon or one tablespoon or one tablespoon.
18:36:56 Yeah. Yeah.
18:37:02 Yeah, yeah.
18:37:00 So she has given me that exact size. Like, you know, just if this one for you for it, that is what they will.
18:37:06 So yeah, I'm in the same boat.
18:37:06 Yeah, and then there is this transition like now I think that if you're like measuring how much salt would go in that's a defeat you should just like use a hands yeah And.
18:37:17 Just like, yes You can never like, things go right with it. I times it doesn't but it's okay.
18:37:25 It's fine.
18:37:24 Yeah. Yeah, I, I love cooking, but I want to cook for like as a luxury nor as necessary.
18:37:31 Yeah. Yeah.
18:37:35 Yeah, not as a necessary, but, like I've been through phases, I've gone through like, there was a phase where I was just taking meal kits from a restaurant from local Indian restaurant.
18:37:49 And, right now I'm in like, okay, let's focus on the fitness and everything, but when you're like taking food from outside, you cannot control what you're getting in.
18:38:00 So I cook mostly in the meal prep phase right now. So. Nice. Nice.
18:38:04 Same here. Still, I like it's been 6 months working after the student, right? Still need prepping because I can't get that student life and the student rules everything go off my life it's still like Saturday Sundays are like prepping up for the week.
18:38:21 Yeah.
18:38:21 So that's the edit will eventually go, I guess, when I'd be more, you know.
18:38:27 It's just you don't get the liberty of time when you start working. So you think it would but you know, yep that's all in the back seat now.
18:38:38 Anyways have to cook and you have to clean and you have to cook and you have to clean and you have to work in the back seat now. Anyways, you have to cook and you have to clean and you have to work.
18:38:42 That's what So, IT has become.
18:38:41 Yeah. Yeah, it's good to like, engage and also like, there's a lot of support.
18:38:52 Okay.
18:38:49 There are other friends who have done this stuff like before you like the like I'm very fortunate I have a huge network now from IT.
18:39:00 Go party who many of them have moved to US or in like And then mostly in area or they keep like now I'm going for camping.
18:39:10 Like next week and I hired people to talk to I could I just had calls and then they know all the Indian tricks.
18:39:24 Yeah.
18:39:19 For like get ready to eat poha and just add water warm water to It's crazy, yeah.
18:39:27 Good evening.
18:39:27 So, yeah, there are people to talk to, I guess, one advice is to like have build a good network and stay in touch with them.
18:39:35 And people have done
18:39:39 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
18:39:33 Thank you. They only family here actually like apart from it. So. But yeah.
18:39:44 But with that being said, we've shared like a lot of nooks here about and having a PhD student in reality who would be graduating soon and I hope this helps everyone this really has helped me a lot and if I would be graduating soon and I hope this helps everyone this really has helped me a lot and if I somewhere down the line pick up USC you are still my go to person.
18:40:04 So.
18:40:02 In the future anytime. Yeah, it was really fortunate to have you here and share all those details which we would have not gotten on the website or anything of that sort coming down from a student itself is really fortunate.
18:40:17 So I really want to thank you for making out this time and you know, it's really fortunate.
18:40:24 So I really want to thank you for making out this time and, you know, sharing all these details.
18:40:24 So thank you. Thank you so much.
18:40:27 Thanks for having me. It was fine and good luck with the podcast moving forward. Yeah.