Discover the captivating world of storytelling with Dawn Greenfield Ireland as we explore her journey from technical writing to mastering multiple genres of fiction and screenwriting.
Guest: Dawn Greenfield Ireland, Author and Storyteller
Website | https://degreenfield.com
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/degreenfield/
On Facebook | https://facebook.com/dawn.ireland.18
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast & Audio Signals Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
Hello, everyone! Marco Ciappelli here, and welcome to another episode of ITSPmagazine. Today, I had the pleasure of speaking with the incredibly talented author and storyteller, Dawn Greenfield Ireland. Dawn has an impressive catalog of written works, spanning from science fiction and dystopian novels to cozy mysteries and award-winning screenplays. Let’s dive into her fascinating journey and gather insightful tips for aspiring writers.
The Genesis of a Writer
Our conversation kicked off with Dawn sharing the origins of her writing career. Dawn’s literary journey began in an unusual way—through technical writing. In the 1970s, while working as an executive secretary in an oil and gas company’s documentation department, a surprising opportunity arose. Dawn was asked to review some documents, which led her to discover a new talent she hadn’t previously known she possessed.
This realization was a game-changer, and she transitioned into technical writing. Later, Dawn moved on to work at Compact Computer, where she gained invaluable insights into the publishing industry as a whole.
Transitioning from Technical Writing to Fiction
One intriguing aspect of Dawn’s career is her transition from technical writing to fiction. I asked her about this shift and whether she had always harbored a desire to write fiction. Dawn revealed that her first foray into fiction happened during a long commute to work, where daydreams turned into notes jotted down on a yellow legal pad. These notes eventually materialized into her first science fiction novel, Second Chance (later renamed Prophecy of Thal).
However, the journey was anything but smooth. Dawn’s first draft took years to complete and underwent numerous revisions before it was finally published—33 years later.
The Importance of Editing and Critique Groups
Dawn’s story underscores the significance of continuous learning and refinement in the writing process. She shared how joining a critique group was instrumental in improving her writing skills. The group provided constructive feedback that helped her transform raw ideas into well-crafted stories.
For aspiring writers, Dawn emphasizes the importance of finding a critique group or, at the very least, a good editor or proofreader to help polish one’s work.
Adapting Books into Screenplays
As an author who has also delved into screenwriting, Dawn explained the distinctions between writing novels and screenplays. While novels allow for expansive descriptions and detailed storytelling, screenplays demand brevity and focus. Adapting a 400-page novel into a 95-page screenplay requires careful condensation, often leaving out important elements.
Despite the challenges, Dawn enjoys both forms of writing, finding fulfillment in the unique constraints and creative opportunities each offers.
The Role of Reading in Writing
We also discussed the pivotal role of reading in one’s development as a writer. Dawn reads two to six books per week, attributing much of her writing prowess to this habit. Reading widely exposes writers to various styles, techniques, and vocabulary, all of which contribute to honing their craft.
She encourages budding writers to read extensively and use modern technology, like eBooks, to easily look up unfamiliar words and concepts.
Practical Advice for Aspiring Writers
To wrap up our conversation, I asked Dawn to offer some practical advice for new writers. Here are her key suggestions:
• Start with an Outline: Jot down your ideas and gradually expand them into a structured outline.
• Join or Form a Critique Group: Feedback from peers can be invaluable in improving your work.
• Stay Organized: Use tools and strategies to keep your writing process efficient and avoid working with outdated drafts.
Final Thoughts
Dawn Greenfield Ireland’s journey from technical writer to multi-genre author and screenwriter is a testament to the importance of perseverance, continuous learning, and embracing new challenges. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to transition into a new genre, implementing her advice can undoubtedly help you become a better writer.
Thank you for joining us on this episode of ITSPmagazine. Don’t forget to check out Dawn’s extensive library of work and consider reaching out to her for further insights. Until next time, keep writing, and keep telling those stories that make us all human.
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Resources
Writers Preparation Handbook Online Course: https://www.degreenfield.com/online-classes
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Mastering Storytelling: Author and Screenwriter Dawn Greenfield Ireland’s Literary Journey | Audio Signals Podcast With Marco Ciappelli
Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: All right, the guest is ready. I am ready. And this is another episode of ITSP Magazine with me, Marco Ciappelli, which also happened to be a co founder of ITSP Magazine. And I have a couple of show. This is the one that I do for fun, let's say, because it's about storytelling, storytellers and, uh, and the meaning.
Of telling stories as human in our in our life I like to say and to start the show always say that we're all made of stories And i'm pretty sure that my guest Dawn Ireland is going to agree with me. And if she doesn't She'll let me know But anyway, that's what we're going to talk about today My other show just for a little bit of advertisement is called redefining society where I talk about technology and society and uh, sometimes they intersect one with the other but Enough about, uh, what I do.
Let's talk about what Dawn does. And, uh, welcome to the show.
[00:01:04] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Well, thank you, Marco. I appreciate the invitation and hello out there to everybody. Uh, I'll give you, uh, the breakDawn of me. So my writing started, uh, in a very odd way, so to speak, because I, I started as a technical writer. And, uh, the funny thing about that was, uh, we're going back.
I'm going to really show my age here. So, uh, we're going back to the. The seventies. Okay. And, uh, at the time I was an executive secretary, but I worked in the documentation department of this oil and gas company. And the, uh, managing editor plopped some stuff Dawn on my desk one day and said, Hey, take a look at this stuff and see what you think.
You know? And so I did, you know, that's when I invested in red pens and discovered, uh, you know, a whole new talent that I had. That paid significantly more than, you know, a little secretarial job. And, uh, so I transitioned from that company over to Compact Computer where I worked for about 10 years. And from that point on, I learned about the entire publishing industry because I worked in corporate communications and, you know, while we were writing manuals and things for the, the product line, uh, There was also the, you know, the whole publishing part of that.
We didn't just write them. We, you know, edited them. We, uh, had a printing company that we dealt with. So we went on, you know, we had to go to the printing company to check, you know, what they were doing with that. So, I mean, it opened up a whole new world for me and, uh, I'm very grateful to that technical writing and something that I learned, which is very valuable for writers, is that when you are on a project, whatever, you know, the project is, uh, whether it's a manual or a user guide or whatever, you have a deadline and you have to start with the date that it's due and work back to the day that you start it.
And there, there's no, you know, there's no tripping time in there. You've got to make your publishing deadline because whatever the thing is, if it's going to go into a box to be shipped out, you know, there's, there's no slip time. So it's very,
[00:03:46] Marco Ciappelli: let me, let me ask you something, which is, of course, I'm curious about the transition between the technical writing, which is, If you're a geek, it's a lot of fun.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I talk about cybersecurity. I talk about technology and I love it. So it doesn't matter to me, but then I need the other outlet, which is, as I started as a copywriter in the advertising world, I know what it means to work in within frames. And I love to be creative in within frames.
If I have a white paper, I kind of freak out, but if I have a briefing. Then I can get creative in within those limits. So I like to pick your brain in, in this, how you transition. If you already had a book in your, in your mind before, and then you put it in a corner while you were a technical writer, or you just discover something and say, Hey, maybe I can write something different.
How did it go?
[00:04:51] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Well, It happened, uh, two years before I started at Compact Computer. Uh, I think it was, uh, somewhere around, uh, well actually no, it was a little bit longer. I think it was somewhere around 78, 79. Uh, I had a very long commute to work and, uh, so I was daydreaming, you know, driving and daydreaming.
And each day the daydream grew to the point where I finally brought, uh, a yellow line tablet and a pen and I had that on the passenger seat. So anytime I stopped, I would, you know, scribble Dawn notes. And, uh, that went on, uh, throughout that whole, you know, I Dawn't know, it was, you know, like probably several months.
And I mean, I had several Lime tablets filled up, you know, and sat Dawn one day and started typing it out. And I thought, wow, this is pretty good, you know, and it was my, my very first science fiction novel. Uh, back then it was called Second Chance. But, uh, it transitioned into, uh, Prophecy of Thal, which this is what it used to look like.
And we just, uh, created, uh, a brand new cover, which I absolutely love. Yeah, really nice. So it's really funny about that because, okay, so I started it somewhere around 1979, and I finished the first draft in 1984. Now, what you have to take into consideration is I did not know one thing at all about writing.
Nothing whatsoever. Uh, so it was not published until 33 years later. I went through draft after draft after draft, change this, change that, you know, uh, luckily I was in a critique group that helped me out, uh, cause I, I had no inkling at all about writing. What helped when I started the technical writing job was I learned some of the process, even though it was for technical documents, it still transitions into the creative area.
You know, you have to learn how to set up your book. You have to learn how to, you know, create things on the page. And for God's sakes, I was I was horrible for years with commas and apostrophes. They were the enemy. This is why you always need a good editor to get you through these things and uh,
[00:07:47] Marco Ciappelli: let me let me ask you So 30 years Was it really that different when you finally decide to publish it or was it something else that hold you from I Dawn't know, maybe he wanted to be very, like, perfect.
Because, you know, things are never really perfect when you write. I mean, you can go the day after and you will change something that would have worked just fine.
[00:08:16] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: No, I'll be honest with you, Marco. The first draft was so awful. It was just so awful. My main character cried, I think, about 85 percent through the book.
You know, , I mean, you know, when you Dawn't know what you're doing. Yeah. When, when you Dawn't know what you're doing, you do the best that you can. But then, you know, uh, as you look at it again, and then again and again, then you learn how to really create a story that you know anybody would be interested in.
Right. And I mean it. Yeah. It's. It's sad, but you know, we all stumbled through our first book.
[00:09:00] Marco Ciappelli: Oh, wasn't Hemingway that said the first draft of everything is, uh, that's pretty sad, so, you know, if Hemingway said that.
[00:09:09] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: I'm sure, you know, I, I definitely say that, you know, it's like, get your, get your, go out there.
[00:09:14] Marco Ciappelli: But there is a good idea, usually, you know, there is a good idea, you just need to carve it out of. Yeah, the stone and
[00:09:21] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Yeah,
[00:09:21] Marco Ciappelli: you know, the, the, the sculpture is already in it. So, but then after that, you ended up, I was reading your bio, having, uh, written and published 17 novels, seven nonfiction books, and 15 screen plays.
So I guess you figured out, oh yeah, I figured it out. ,
[00:09:40] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: uh, the, the critique group that I. joined back, uh, I think it was around 1984, 1985, they were, uh, so helpful to, you know, turn my ideas into something that was worthy of, you know, spending time getting them Dawn on paper. Uh, you know, you've got to have either a good editor, a good critique group, or a good proofreader or someone.
To get your work, uh, to the point where somebody else can look at it and say, Oh boy, you know, I mean, because even today, I mean, I, I read two to six books a week and it's awful when I read something that has on the cover, New York times, bestselling author or USA today, bestselling author. And there's errors all over the place.
Sometimes it's like they Dawn't even have their characters names spelled the same way throughout the book. Or that they've lost a dog or, you know, something else that's in there, you know, I mean, it just irks me.
[00:10:57] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And when you are in that business, everything, it's kind of like when you are in, you get into the metrics, then you see the metrics.
And when you, when you, and I can tell you this, cause my wife, she's a customer on, on set of movies. So every time we watch a movie, Or anything has, you know, the mic sticking out a little bit, or there is continuity, where, you know, somebody is supposed to have the time a certain way, but isn't enough. And she just see it, like, oh, yeah, is it just a regular, I mean, now I see it too, because I'm like, kind of trained like that.
But yeah, I see what you say by saying, you know, I notice, you notice all these things that. Maybe the, the regular reader wouldn't, but it does make a difference. Yeah, the
[00:11:47] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: readers really, yeah, they're so ignorant about what should be on the page and what they're actually reading on the page. You know, what are you going to do?
[00:11:59] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, well, if they enjoy it. Tell me, tell me a little bit more about all this book that you write. Do you have a genre, a style that you, that you follow? Is it all sci fi? Do you go from one to the other? No, I have cozy mysteries.
[00:12:17] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: This is one. This
[00:12:20] Marco Ciappelli: is the people listening to the podcast, uh, Dawn and showing me the covers of the book.
Oh,
[00:12:25] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: that's right. Yeah, they can't see. This is
[00:12:27] Marco Ciappelli: both, you know, some people like to watch podcasts. Some people just like me listen, a radio guy. Yeah, like I like to listen which I do also for for books lately because I can consume many more. But yeah, so you have different, uh, different genre that you, uh, So
[00:12:45] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: I have, uh, the science fiction, then I have some dystopian, which is, uh, that's my last, the last dog, which is set in 2086.
And then I have, uh, my bonded series, which is a billionaire shapeshifter series. And I always in the front of each book in that series, I have, you must be 18 years old to read this because. Shapeshifters include sex and violence.
So
[00:13:19] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: I Dawn't want to get in any trouble. You know, I Dawn't want my young adult people, you know, tripping over there and getting into trouble with their parents.
And then I have, uh, so then I have the Cozy Mysteries. I've got, uh, two series in the Cozy Mysteries. Uh, and I mean, it's the same with the screenplays, except for with the screenplays, I also have horror, uh, So, and every single one of my genres have won awards, and the thing about that, which I think is so critical to point out to other writers out there, uh, professionals will tell you, you should stick to one genre.
You know, if you go into another genre, you're going to just, you know, lose yourself and your readers and everything else. Well, that's, that's not correct. True. That's not true. You know, I can write just about anything.
[00:14:19] Marco Ciappelli: You know, I'm laughing because the episode that I recorded before this was actually a cybersecurity thing.
But the one before is actually with a neurosurgeon that become a writer. And when I asked him, what is it was going to write the next, he told me exactly the same thing. He said, my publisher suggests me to stick to the With what I know with my style because the reader would expect that And instead he's writing something completely different and this is on the same day Two writers that are saying the same thing and you know what I told them I said you write what you want Yeah
[00:15:01] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Yeah, what makes you happy because if it doesn't make you happy, it's not going to be any good
[00:15:06] Marco Ciappelli: Exactly.
Exactly. Tell me i'm curious As somebody that both wrote Fiction books and screenplay. I mean this is an entire different technique. Oh, yeah When you write one another maybe maybe our audience will be interested in I think in Knowing how you approach One versus the other
[00:15:29] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: well with a novel You can you know, you have the ability to put in all types of descriptions, you know And that's what the reader wants the reader wants You know to see the environment that the characters in, you know, what the situation is, they want everything spelled out for them.
Whereas in a screenplay, uh, you have no more than 120 pages and actually producers want, you know, they, they would be very happy to stick between 90 and 95 pages. So, and this goes through also with, uh, adapting a book. You know, if you're adapting a fiction book, that's 400 pages And you have to shrink that Dawn, which I've Dawne several times to, you know, uh, 95 pages.
I mean it's like a lot of things get left out. And you know, when, when movies get made from books, You've got the book audience people who are infuriated that all these things have been left out. Why didn't they put this in here? It was so important! Well, you know what? You've got, uh, you know, less than two hours to get it through there.
Unless, of course, you've got one of those big, giant blockbusters that's a three hour movie. You know, that's what I would love. Yay, team! You know, that would be exciting. But, uh, it's very difficult to, uh, to write that concise. You have, uh, you have very little wiggle room to introduce your character. You, you can, you cannot say, you know, Jill is, you know, 34 years old and she has this long flowing blonde hair and she dresses blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
No, they want to know Jill is 31 years old. You know, if she has any disabilities that are visible, you better, you know, wind them up right there and in the beginning, because we Dawn't want to know 40 pages into it. That, oh, you know, she lost an arm, you know, it's like, right. You'll see it. Yeah. And I, I read that in screenplays all the time where, you know, people that, you know, they just, uh, They get lost.
They really Dawn't know what to do.
[00:17:53] Marco Ciappelli: So you, you, you have less room and you need to be more specific for, for the visual that you're going to create. Do you prefer one or the other? Or is that a genre that you? No, I,
[00:18:09] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: I'm, you know, I really love both forms and, uh, yeah, I mean, I started writing screenplays in the late eighties.
Because my, uh, the, uh, agent that I had, the literary agent that I had at that time, wanted me to adapt Prophecy of Thal into a screenplay. And, you know, here, here we go again. You know, I didn't know what the heck I was doing. And, you know, you go to the library at that time and you pull out all kinds of books to try to figure out how to do this.
And then you, uh, find a screenplay that you can read, you know, and see how they did that. And the problem with that is if it's a shooting script, uh, that's not what, you know, beginners use, you know, we are, uh, nobody is paying you for the project when you're just starting off. And, uh, so you Dawn't put in, you know, sounds and you Dawn't put in, you know, all this other stuff, you know, so, uh, it's a, uh, really interesting learning process, but, you know, I love both.
Forms of the writing.
[00:19:28] Marco Ciappelli: It's uh, yeah, I guess it's a different mindset and And I think it goes together Maybe what I said at the beginning like I like to have Like a briefing and say even if I write something for myself. I say, okay, this is This is the the frame where i'm gonna be and and then in there I can be as creative as I want to be well So i'm thinking the script itself, which I never I never write And I wrote, it could be a different kind of challenge.
And I think writers are people that, that do like challenges.
[00:20:06] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Yeah. Well, some do, some Dawn't, you know, some are, you know, stick very close to, you know, their genre and, and they, you know, they, they will not put one big toe outside of their, their little, The little world, you know, whereas I'm just ready, you know, where's my space suit?
I'm going to take off, you know,
[00:20:30] Marco Ciappelli: it looks like it from your, from your bio and all the things that you have Dawne. Um, one thing I would like to talk before, you know, the time runs out is the fact that the importance of reading. I mean, you say you read two to six books every week. Um, I know there is a note in your website or maybe it was in your bio about you've been encouraged to read a lot as a, as a, as a kid.
Even the, the cereal boxes, like as long as you read. Tell me about that. I mean, if you're, if somebody comes to you as they, I know they do, cause you consult on this and they say, you know, I want to be a better writer. How does reading more frames the development of a good writer?
[00:21:20] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: To me, it's very important, you know, turn the TV off and sit Dawn with a book.
Uh, people who want to write, or they're just learning how to write, they will get so much out of, you know, reading and reading on a steady basis, not just, you know, one book a month, you know, uh, because you're going to learn language skills. You're going to see how other authors, uh, create their whole setup.
Uh, and how things go, you know, throughout the whole process. And, you know, no two writers are alike. So every book that you read is going to be so totally different in, you know, character setups and, you know, the plot and everything else. And, uh, one thing I love about, uh, eBooks is that if you Dawn't know that word, you just highlight it.
And there's the definition. Whereas in the old days, you know, all you had was a paperback and a dictionary, you know, and when you have to take the time to, you know, get the dictionary out and look up the word, it's taking you so, so far out of the story that it's kind of worthless, you know, so yay team for technology.
[00:22:42] Marco Ciappelli: I know, I know. I do a lot of audiobook and sometimes I also be in English, my second language. I'm still learning, obviously, and, uh, sometimes there is a word that I think is important. I Dawn't, I Dawn't need to know every single word. I can, you know, you kind of grasp it, even, especially when you listen to it.
But then I do the same thing. Maybe I'm walking the dogs. I just push the little, the little button on my headset and I say, Hey Siri, what's that? What's that word? So I love how you just, you know, I mean, you learn a lot by doing that. And tell me your perspective on reading something that yoDawnon't like. I mean, follow me here.
So sometimes I listen to a podcast, let's say, and I say, I Dawn't like this style. This is something I wouldn't do It's still a learning process because it By comparison I can hear something that I love and that I get inspired and i'm like,
okay
[00:23:48] Marco Ciappelli: That's something I want to get better kind of like this. I Dawn't know an npr maybe nice Yes, or a bbc or or whatever and others they're like, yeah, no, that's not good, but I still listen maybe because It kind of Make me process the other way around how to get better even by listening.
So do you do the same thing? Do you read book that you just keep going and pulling through? Great. I got disconnected with the video. Where
[00:24:18] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: are you?
[00:24:19] Marco Ciappelli: I can hear you. I'll figure it out. You can go ahead and answer the question.
[00:24:23] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: So yeah, it's, uh, I come across things that, uh, I Dawn't like and my writer friends laugh at me because.
I force myself to read it to the end because I want to find out, you know, if the author, you know, could pull the rabbit out of their hat, you know, to save their story or, or what, you know, uh, sometimes, uh, sometimes it works and sometimes it's just, you know, it's just trash, but I will get through it.
That's all there is to it. I will get through the damn thing. And, you know, just, uh, But I thoroughly believe in leaving a review that the book deserves. So if I read something that has errors all over the place, or if the plot is just so loose you can't even figure out what the heck is going on, then I'm going to, you know, leave a public review and I'm going to say this book needed an editor or, you know, a proofreader or needed research or something like that.
Because You know, when you look at reviews and you've read the book and you know it's trash and the book has all these five star reviews, well, you know that that's family and friends that are just, you know. They're not doing that person any favors whatsoever, you know, because I tell people that who read my book, you know, if you find any bloopers, let me know because I want to fix those.
And all it takes is just a click to upload a new text version.
[00:26:10] Marco Ciappelli: I agree with you. I think that the crowdsourcing of information and review as it happened on Amazon for a product, it should be something that is real. I mean, we need to be honest and uh, maybe that's uh, that's something that you said it may be very useful for the writer itself to, to get better at something.
[00:26:36] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Yeah, they, they have to be able to look at those reviews and see, you know, if they have shortcomings and if they need to improve something instead of somebody, you know, saying, oh, it's just so wonderful, you know, I mean, Does no one any good
[00:26:53] Marco Ciappelli: now, let's uh, let's take the last few minutes and I for the people watching I had to change my camera because people listening voice is still the same I would like to take this five minutes that we have left or less for you to give maybe some advice To someone that it's either a young writer or somebody that is a new writer Maybe somebody to start later in life and decide Hey, I want to I want to really write that book has been in my head for a long time even if I not an experienced one, maybe it doesn't come from being a copywriter or a journalist and or Technical writer and it's still like learning the role, but it has this desire To it has this desire to to write.
So what are maybe a couple of bullet points advice that you can give?
[00:27:42] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Well, I always tell People who want to write and they Dawn't know how to write or they Dawn't know where to begin, you go back to like the eighth grade in school. You start with an outline, you know, just jot things Dawn that you want to have in your book, whether it's fiction or nonfiction, it doesn't make any difference what it is.
But if you start with an outline and then you, uh, expand that outline, you know, anytime you come up with any kind of thought, Put it in there. And before you know it, you're going to have, you know, you may start off with just a couple of paragraphs, but, but if you keep doing that, you're going to have, you know, five pages, 10 pages, whatever.
And then you have something to build a story on. And another thing that I want to put out there to people that are just starting out, uh, you Try to find a critique group. You know, you can find one through the library or a local college or, you know, any type of school. You, they usually have bulletin boards or something and you just, you know, try to find something or you create your own critique group and hope that you get somebody in your group that's a good editor, you know, because, uh, I had a, uh, a group.
that lasted for 24 years, and I finally retired it, but, uh, we had, uh, two great editors in that group. And so we all got together every week, or sometimes once, once, uh, once a month, once two or three times a month, we would bring pages with us. And then, uh, later on, uh, we would email, like, 20 pages to each of the members.
And so they had to read all those pages, mark them up and bring them to the next group meeting and we would, uh, go around the table and discuss, you know, Here's what I found, you know, I didn't like this or, oh, I just love that, you know, uh, you've got all these errors, you know, you learn how, have to learn how to spell check, kiddo, you know, that's one of my pet peeves.
This is the finger that does the spell check, click it, you know.
[00:30:15] Marco Ciappelli: Well, I remember at the beginning of the conversation, you, you mentioned a lot of red pens. When you start, oh yes, the technical writing. So , I, I got, I got that when you said that. and I, I have a red pan in my hand, but it's actually a blue pen.
It's red only in the call. . Um, and I think, I Dawn't know if you agree, but I think a lot of people Yes. Think about it. Learn. I love the idea of the critique group because, you know, you can't really be a critique of yourself. Um, no, you can't. It's hard. It's hard. But also maybe give it a go. Give it a try. I think a lot of people they have it in them to be really good writer But they you know, there's they're afraid of failure and I feel like there's always someone that is not gonna like it Oh, yeah, there may be a lot of people that do we can't well like everything And
[00:31:10] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: I I know that people can't see this but they can hear this.
I I wrote this song This tiny little book, very, very tiny,
called
[00:31:18] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Writer's Preparation Handbook, and it doesn't make any difference if you're writing fiction or non fiction manuals or whatever. This will teach you how to get yourself so completely organized that you won't lose things. Because believe me, uh, if you do not have what's important to you in a file folder, Whether it's in your desk drawer or on your laptop or, you know, your desktop screen or something.
Uh, when I was a technical writer, uh, I gave a lot of lessons to the engineers because a lot of times they would end up working with the wrong version of the document. Lots of wasted time to hunt around to find the right version. And. That's why people really need to get themselves organized. So this is a tiny little book.
Very inexpensive, you know, just get it.
[00:32:18] Marco Ciappelli: Cool. So I think a lot of people got a lot out of this conversation even because they'll try to write, they want it already to write, but also a lot of people that love to listen topics related to writing are usually people that like to read. I know that a lot of the audience is people interested in learning things about authors and what inspired them to write books and, and maybe it helps to appreciate.
The books that they're reading and that they will read. So Dawn, I want to thank you for being on the show. I will Share all the links in the notes for the podcast so that people can get in touch with you Um, get thank you where your books are. I know you have a website So that's probably going to be the easiest thing to just send people to To the website.
I want to thank you for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. I learned a lot and i'm hopefully You I'm hopeful that, uh, people in the audience, uh, are learning a lot as they go and listen to these episodes and this in particular video. So thank you. Well, I
[00:33:23] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: enjoyed it, Marco, and I really appreciate the chance to, you know, get some information out there.
[00:33:33] Marco Ciappelli: We need to. We need to learn things so that we can actually apply it. I remember a lot of people, writers, or musicians, or artists in general, and I think Picasso actually said this, if you want to break the rules, you need to learn the rules first. That's right. That's right. And then you can break them. You can't just not have the knowledge of rules.
of what you, the art that you choose. And with that,
[00:34:03] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: if you have any questions, you know, feel free to just, you know, contact me. And the same thing with anybody who, you know, listens or watches this, you know, I am open to You know, questions and answers, you know,
[00:34:18] Marco Ciappelli: that's a wonderful thing. And I hope people would, uh, would take this invitation and act on it.
And for everybody listening, please, uh, share this conversation, subscribe, listen to many other ones where we talk with storytellers about storytelling and, uh, and their, their life, their experience and the job that they, that they do. Take care, everybody.
[00:34:42] Dawn Greenfield Ireland: Take care. Bye. Bye.