In this episode, Marco Ciappelli and Jonas Angleflod discuss the impact and potential of generative AI on the future of the workforce.
Guest: ✨ Jonas Angleflod, AI expert and founder and CEO of Theories Group
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonasangleflod/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/angleflod
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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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Episode Introduction
Welcome back to another episode of the Redefining Society podcast! In today's conversation, we dive into the fascinating world of generative AI and its impact on the workforce. Our guest is Jonas Angleflod, an expert in scaling startups and the group CEO of a digital media group. Host Marco Ciappelli leads the discussion, exploring the possibilities and challenges that come with the rise of AI.
They begin by acknowledging the rapid changes in society driven by technology and the need for individuals and organizations to adapt. Generative AI, a term that has become ubiquitous in the news and political discourse, takes center stage in this episode. Marco even introduces a drinking game, jokingly mentioning that every time he says "generative AI," viewers can take a sip of their favorite beverage.
Jonas Angleflod shares his native pronunciation of his surname and talks about his background in startups and scaling organizations. Despite not having technical capabilities, Jonas thrives in the tech world by understanding how technology can impact and shape the future. Marco emphasizes the importance of the human-to-technology and technology-to-human translation, highlighting the need for a harmonious relationship between the two.
The conversation shifts to the changes brought about by the entrance of AI into the workplace. Jonas references his book, "Fast, Tight, and Relevant," which outlines the principles for building and scaling small organizations. He emphasizes that while the tools may change, the fundamental principles of making something work, standardizing it, and scaling it up remain timeless. The integration of AI in the workplace is seen as an accelerator and an opportunity to focus on more engaging and creative tasks.
Both guests draw parallels to previous pivotal moments in history, such as the industrial revolution and the internet's advent. They explore how the introduction of technology initially sparked fear and displacement but eventually led to innovation, greater productivity, and an improved quality of life.
The episode concludes by discussing the future of AI in organizations. The success of companies will hinge on their ability to embrace augmentation rather than competition. They underscore the need for education and training to help individuals manage and lead autonomous agents effectively. By empowering humans to work alongside AI tools, organizations can unlock new levels of creativity and productivity.
Tune in to this thought-provoking episode as Marco and Jonas take you on a journey into the world of generative AI and its promise for the future workforce.
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Resources
Fast, tight, relevant!: https://ftr.pub/book
Fast, tight, relevant! (audiobook): https://ftr.pub/audiobook
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To see and hear more Redefining Society stories on ITSPmagazine, visit:
https://www.itspmagazine.com/redefining-society-podcast
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Hello everybody, this is Marco Ciappelli. Welcome back to another episode of Redefining Society podcast, where lately I joke about that every time that I redefine it, I have to start all over again because it changed way, way too quickly, our society. And part of that is obviously because technology is changing really quickly and we need to adopt and hopefully We need to drive those changes and not just being carried around by those waves that lately, again, they come pretty fast and pretty strong.
And I have to say, and here's the drinking game, generative AI. So every time I say this word, I guess somebody might even laugh, uh, make a dollar or, or drink a sip of whatever your favorite beverage is. But, uh, we have to talk about it. It's really changing things. It's always in the news. Politicians are talking about it, legislators.
We are scared and excited at the same times. And if there is one place, um, which is the workplace, where it seems to affect a lot the future of how the workforce is going to. To, uh, perform and the judge and hired and leave with, uh, generative AI.
And so today's conversation is going to be quite exciting. We have for those watching the video, you've already seen it. Jonas and I'm going to try the last name. Hungly Floyd. I hope I did a good job enough. He will tell me. And, uh, and for those listening, yes, he's here. I'm not lying. Uh, Jonas. Thank you for coming to the show.
[00:01:41] Jonas Angleflod: Yeah. Thank you, Marco. Uh, really appreciate you having me. Um, so, uh, I can do the, the native pronunciation of my surname.
[00:01:50] Marco Ciappelli: Please let's learn the language here. Yeah.
[00:01:52] Jonas Angleflod: So in Swedish, I'm Swedish. Uh, my name is Jonas Angleflod or in the American version is like Jonas Angleflod.
[00:02:02] Marco Ciappelli: Okay. I got, I got it pretty close.
Yeah, it was pretty, I don't know what's the Italian version, but I think it's close to the,
[00:02:09] Jonas Angleflod: I think you have to teach me that one.
[00:02:11] Marco Ciappelli: We'll figure it out. We'll do that after the show. I'll have a little laugh about that. But let's start from that, from the name, but mostly from the person that carries that name, which is you.
So who is Jonas? Give us a little background about yourself and what actually make you so passionate and. And I know you wrote a book about the, the workforce and, uh, and, and, and especially now about ai. Yeah. So a little intro by yourself.
[00:02:39] Jonas Angleflod: Okay. So the, the super short version, because I could probably talk about myself, for the longevity of this podcast, but the short version is I've, um, been in the basically starting, uh, startups running Start.
Taking them from, from the garage to scale ups. The last 15 years, I have a background in telecoms and then I moved into SaaS, the SaaS business software. And currently I'm group CEO of a digital media group. Um, so, um, my background is basically building products and organizations, scaling them, getting them off the ground.
The first working version like. proof of concept, scaling them, making them into companies that are actually, a few of them are actually, um, um, quite successful now. So, so that's the short version of, of, uh, of my background, but I'm, uh, my passion around kind of the workforce and the technology comes from Well, basically me being a tech nerd without having any of the technical capabilities.
So I had to kind of survive in the tech world some other way. That, uh, that way was working, managing, organizing, working with the business because I can't write code. Uh, I can't do anything, but I can understand concepts pretty well when it comes to technology and how it affects us. I love the idea of taking something that is a seed or an embryo that has a possibility and stretching it into the future to see like what can we make of this.
That excites me.
[00:04:19] Marco Ciappelli: And it excites me too. I mean, when you're saying these things, I kind of see a little bit of myself in it because I ended up talking a lot about technology. My background is sociology and political science. So, but I'm excited about all this thing happening and how they shape. Maybe I look a little bit more in general how they shape society and I look at it from a philosophical perspective, but we need that translation technology to humanity and humanity to technology.
That's why we're here talking about this. So I'm going to start with this because I know you wrote a book about. A couple of years ago, we don't need a date, but it was called Fast, Tight, and Relevant, which is three good advice for a company, I think, so we can talk about that. But at the time, while AI was into the conversation, it wasn't so much into the news.
Maybe we're talking about language, we're talking about translation, maybe visual application for AI. I mean, it seems like 30 years ago, but it was only like three years ago. And then this big change happened. So were you already envisioning this big change when you were writing the book or, or you have to kind of adapt that concept to what the way you see things now?
[00:05:40] Jonas Angleflod: Yeah. So, I mean, One of the things, and this comes kind of from, this is for me personally, I don't like the word revolution, because nothing is a revolution. Everything is a constant evolution of things piling up on each other. And the book, Fast, Tight, Relevant, was basically a, um, That's my recipe for how to build a small organization and make it scale.
And those principles, which basically are like standardize everything, make sure that you have a working process on paper first, then you can scale it up. You can put it into a code or you can accelerate it. All of those are foundations for actually using these ALQs. AI tools. Well, what AI is, is basically an accelerator, a smart accelerator of a working process or something that is already working.
So I wrote, I was smart enough to write in the book that the tools that I'm talking about now will come, become dated, but the principles, make something work, standardize it, then you can scale it up. That will probably be. Stay with us for a really long time, even through the AI age and whatever comes next, because it's kind of fundamental for taking something really small that you can do one of and making it millions or billions.
So, so hopefully, but, but at some point the book will be dated and I have to update it probably.
[00:07:14] Marco Ciappelli: Almost every book, unless you write a fantasy book and then it's your world, you do what you want with it. Yeah. Yeah. Middle, middle earth. Let's say that. Uh, but we're talking about reality here, so we need to keep into consideration again that we are redefining, we're reinventing, adapting to all of this.
So I think your, your approaches is great. But before we go into maybe some Some of the way that you see this, this adaptation happening, do we have some deja vu moment where we're, we're, we're gone through this, um, changes, this kind of changes, pivotal changes, and somehow we're, we're doing okay. I mean, certainly not perfect as a society, but we're doing all right.
[00:08:03] Jonas Angleflod: Yeah, so, so, um, Definitely. And I'm one of the people that want to kind of induce or give some, some, some sense of peace in this kind of the AI is coming. If we, if we kind of rewind back to November, Okay. 2022, when, when it became like it publicly exploded, everything I heard in the business sector was, Oh my God, the robots are coming.
I don't believe that that is the case. I believe it's a, it's a, it's a super useful tool. And if we look at other pivotal moments. That are kind of in comparison with this. We can, we can, we can, we can go back to the, to the early, um, let's say, mid 18th century with the start of the industrialization. I mean, the, the, the only thing that happened there, let's say that, uh, The, the ability to create steam engine or, or water driven industrial plants, uh, they changed society.
They changed the workplace. Uh, let's, let's take clothing as a simple example. What happened basically was we could start producing lots of clothes that Probably, um, conquered out the local tailor and replaced the local tailor, but we didn't end up with one giant clothes factory in Great Britain alone serving all the people of the world because two other things happened.
The price of production went close to zero or it got drastically reduced, which made the demand store. So that gave us like the, the, the idea of abundance. So. The normal person went from having one shirt, one pair of pants and actually having to be without shoes during the summer, not to kind of wear the only pair of shoes you had out.
We went from having that to, I don't know, how many shirts do you have? How many pants? More than what I need. Exactly. So, I mean, so, so we went from, from, from a place where. This, the, the big scare was industrialization will take, it'll kill the tailor and all the, the local craftsmen, and we will all be jobless.
But that didn't happen, right? We came into a world where production cost was lower, productivity was higher, which made it possible for kind of demand to soar, and we could. Kind of close more people. Uh, and you have the same kind of pivotal moment with the automobile. Uh, when Henry Ford and Benz were kind of creating this idea.
Most people, uh, probably more, um, Of the intellectual elite said that no gentleman would ever consider consider a motor car anything else than a sports or recreational vehicle. And now motor cars has been driving the economy with freight and everything like that. for decades, uh, or even century. So, so I think we're kind of standing in this pivotal moment.
Uh, I mean, the, the entrance of computers in the workplace in the seventies, the entrance of the internet in the nineties, and now AI in the twenties. They are pretty similar, and what has happened, what is really interesting to draw kind of parallels from then, uh, into the future is, in all of these changes, what happens is the price of production has gone down some, uh, well, we won't get hit zero, we'll never do that, potentially, uh, or theoretically we could, you know, But the price of production will reduce in terms of services in terms of other things, not only goods, but services and anything else, which means that the demand can soar.
And I think, I think we're, we're kind of facing. That exact thing. So if we look at the entrance of the internet in the 90s into the workplace, it took about 10 years until something really happened. And what happened then was there was a birth of a lot of new types of jobs. So the social media manager, the chief digital officer, the data analyst.
I mean, those, no one would have even imagined those in the 70s. Uh, so, so I think we're, we're kind of, we're in a place where the demand for a lot more creative, hopefully playful, uh, work types or, or, or work tasks is in front of us, which means that hopefully we can leave the mundane, dangerous and boring things or, or, or, or Data wise complex things to machines and work with machines and guide them.
And we've been talking about this in the organizations that I'm engaged in. I'm in a couple of boards for a few startups. So what we talk about is okay. What does a day, uh, in the life of someone working in this organization look like? I mean, what would you imagine? Um, I mean, today I, I use a ton of apps to help me.
Uh, and I work with them basically with the same type of input that has been along since the seventies. It's a keyboard and a mouse, but the, the entrance of AI makes that user interface possible to change. This could actually be someone that I could converse with. So instead of me typing days on end, giving it assignments, just like, Hey, could you help me?
Write the TPS reports or whatever report you think are boring.
Uh, uh, or could you,
could you gather these, uh, this information for me, compile it in a way so I can start drawing conclusions. I would move myself to work with more interesting, uh, maybe more creative things, finding things that would be an opportunity here and there.
So, so hopefully what we're seeing and what we're kind of standing on the threshold for is a more fun and more engaging workplace.
[00:14:35] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, and a lot of good point and maybe we can use some, some example of concrete categories of works because here's what I'm thinking. I agree with you. We are in a constant evolution.
Constant change. We get excited and yet we are very afraid of it. So it's kind of a paradox, my opinion, from a philosophical perspective, because like, okay, I have this job. Um, I don't know. I'm the assistant and I'm the one that you tell me what to write and or what to summarize. They could be an intern, could be whatever you want.
And all of a sudden, well, you can do that with CHAT GPT. And actually you can talk to it nowadays. And so, This person feel threatened because I, that's my job. What am I going to do? And, and like that, I feel like there are many that are on the line, like there was, uh, the people that, to drive the carriage and the horses when the cars come out or the tailor, your example.
So there is a certain category. I didn't, I don't want to generalize in terms of blue collar, white collar, that's way too, too wide on my opinion, but Maybe some example of how somebody in the organization can orchestrate the shift so it doesn't say, well, I don't need you anymore because I have a machine that does that for me now, but I can use your time in a, in a better way.
Like in an ideal utopian world, that will be what the company should do, in my opinion. What's your take on that?
[00:16:16] Jonas Angleflod: I think that the Klondike area. Uh, or era, um, will, will be the first couple of years where company owners see, Hey, I have a massive opportunity to kind of maximize profit here. So of course there's going to be displacement to begin with, because it's easier to displace a person probably in the beginning than to reimagine what they're going to do to me, just to, to.
come to a place where you can do 2x, 4x, 10x of that person's time. So there's going to be a short period here where some company founders or some company are going to take that easy route. The, the more smart one is to actually do, as you say, like, how can we leverage your time into something that is more engaging for you and more, uh, more produces more output for the company.
Um, and I, what we see when we talk about this, because you can, you can basically today build an autonomous agent that would do a data analyst, uh, go through pilot data, analyze it, compile it for you, which. takes away a junior analyst, right? But that junior analyst could probably manage 10 of these agents, seeing cross references, um, compiling, preparing, like, trying to dig into the data to see where are their business opportunities here, not just like doing the mundane job, but actually to using what they've probably used 10 or 20 percent of their time.
Uh, to today do that a hundred percent more relaxed, more creative to create more outputs. So it's basically if, if we would envision it, uh, it's, it, I think we will come to a place where we have to, uh, lift every worker to become somewhat of a leader. So you can lead these autonomous agents in, in their work and, and make, uh, make something productive out of that instead of doing the app work.
Cause I mean, at the office place today, I've been at both small companies and medium sized and big companies. A lot of things that are happening, uh, is copy pasting. moving information from one system to another. It's something that that's not kind of engaging and doesn't really bring any value. So, but if I could, if I could move myself to have 10 of those agents doing that for me, I could work with how can we make use of this information or how could we compile it?
What's the next level and next level and next level. And that's a bit more complex. What it does, it's, it takes away. The, you know, the, the entry level or the junior, uh, level, uh, of the workplace, uh, in terms of, I wouldn't say white collar, but service workers or, or knowledge workers. Uh, but it won't happen overnight.
Uh, I think no company will adapt well, a few of them are crazy enough to say, AI and throw out all the humans, but I don't think that the majority of the workplace would look like that because. As we've seen, let's go back, kind of, let's, let's view back again to the industrialization, the automobile, the computers, the internet, and so on.
It took 10 to 20 years before we as an organization and humans adapted to the technology. The technology changes in an instant. It's kind of binary from one day to another. It's either worth worthless or really good, but for us to adapt it and to adapt ourselves, it takes time. So I think we're going to have a lot of time, uh, to, to make these adoptions.
The mind shift we have to teach ourselves and we have to kind of implement in organization is, is how do we train ourselves to become good leaders for these autonomous agents that do the mundane work?
[00:20:25] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, I, I, I absolutely love that because you need to look at And I do, I mean, I, I play with CHAT GPT all the time in my job.
I mean, I, I find ways to get more creative with it. Um, it's not just, you know, yeah, write a summary for this podcast. Why should I, but I also don't just let to put out the, the. The old summary full of tapestry and, and, and dwelve and all the words that CHAT GPT likes to use. I need to put something on my own as a creative person.
And I think that's the idea also to consider, like to what you say, you need to lead where the tool can bring you. It's not going to be the other way around. Otherwise you're just going to disappear in the background. Right. So,
[00:21:14] Jonas Angleflod: yeah. And it's still a tool. And of course, the one thing that Early on in the, when CHAT GPT was launched, everybody, uh, that I talked with said like, Oh my God, the robots are coming, but hey, they're stupid because look at the output.
So, so that was like a bit of hope and despair at the same time. Um, but then they grew into, okay, but this is good. I can use it for this, but. It can't do creativity, but I think that's okay. I think that's, um, that's a dangerous thought because if we, if we kind of move ourselves into the creativity corner and say, that's a human trait, you can't do that.
Well, let's take a look at creativity. It's not a divine process. It's a, it's a, it's a logical process of deductions where you kind of take one thought and lead to another, lead to another. And at some point you say, What if I do the opposite, or what if this wasn't true, and then you lead it back and then you've created, like, then you have Monet, Van Gogh, or whoever, it's kind of a logical process.
So, at some points, these systems will learn creativity and start inducing that as well. So the only way for us to leverage this is to look at it in, in I love the word augmentation because that's actually where we're going. The, the industry machine augmented a worker so they could produce more clothes, more cars, more TVs, which, which made it possible for four, for more people in the world to enjoy those kinds of luxuries.
You know, I think we're, we're kind of, we have to take this, we have to, from a kind of metaphoric standpoint, not be at the conveyor belt, actually putting the things together. We have to take a step back and, and manage the robot that puts the things together, uh, and, and view ourselves, like, how do we do that as knowledge worker?
Because that becomes abstract, like that's leadership, that's guidance, that's, it's something else. So I think, um, When we've had these discussions in the small companies I'm in, uh, we've actually said like, okay, we're struggling with this, but what about a medium sized companies, 500 to a thousand employees?
The HR department and the development department and the managers are going to have a Really hard job in front of them figuring out new ways to train people to kind of take this step because it's super easy to say this is the instruction. Welcome to work. This is the instruction. This is what you're going to do.
Go ahead and do it. I'll check in at lunch, but you can't really do that if, if it's more complex than that. So I think we have a training and a knowledge transition challenge in front of us.
[00:24:05] Marco Ciappelli: I think it comes down to education and the way that we prepare people, because all we said, that you said, can easily be applied to The education system where it's happening a lot of lawsuit for people writing using artificial and generative AI.
On the other side, there's people that said, nope, we don't want it. Others say, no, we're going to use the machine to fight the machine. So we're going to see if it's been infringement and so on. And And I think it's the wrong approach that right approach is we got this amazing tool instead of say yes or no Let's let's teach people.
How do you which I can see a parallel between an educational organization as well as any other Yeah, right. So it's, it's a cultural change, that change that probably is going to take 10 years, 20 years to get there. And, but if you don't do that, if you don't say, I'm going to use this person as a human, because has certain skills that the machine doesn't have.
But if I, if I put together, The machine with, with a bright human that is empowered to find a way to apply these immense resource that you have, then, then we can really elevate, I think, our, our status, our life.
[00:25:35] Jonas Angleflod: Yeah. And I think I, I, I, I mean, I'm always a positive person. I see a really bright future because I would love.
to have a few of these agents working with me. One doing the financial report, which I hate. One doing prepping the board report, which I hate. One kind of doing data analysis and finding trends that I'm not aware of because I, I can not as a human have the possibility to see what is pending in Vietnam right now.
I live in Sweden. My cultural references are Swedish, but an autonomous agent without the cultural references could definitely find me what's happening in Vietnam right now. And is there an opportunity for us to create something in that market that is of value for the market and the people living there?
And so as I, I'm, I'm looking forward to having morning talks with, with those agents checking in, like, what did you find yesterday? Okay. Was it any good? Okay. Could you look into more of that? So it's more of a, of, of managing these, uh, Uh, apps, say autonomous apps instead of bots or, or AI agents, it's because of that's what it's, it's kind of apps that you could talk to that behaves, um, hopefully like a well trained, um, uh, assistants.
[00:26:50] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. And, and, and. There is the fear. We, we grew up all with sci fi and, and, uh, and, uh, no, sorry, Dave, I cannot do that. Oh, hell 9, 000 and, and we expect that they're going to take over in a way or in another. And it is a possibility in the long run. I mean, that's why they just had the, the meeting in the UK about that.
We're talking about it. We need to talk about it. The joke is sometimes when I talk to other people in the industry, especially in the cyber security one is like, where is the plug? Like, what if something goes wrong? How do I unplug this thing right when it's connected? But, um, but you know, it's exciting. I think it is.
Where do you see it to go? In the, in the future. I mean, let's put it this way. What are, in your opinion, the organization that will succeed and is there recipes, a formula for that? And those that are really risking to fall into the cracks because state. Didn't do something to to move into the future.
[00:28:00] Jonas Angleflod: Okay.
So let me start with a disclaimer because this is a famous last words type of question. Whatever I predict now will be wrong.
[00:28:08] Marco Ciappelli: I know, but I like to end the conversation with a look on the future with a team.
[00:28:13] Jonas Angleflod: Yeah, definitely. No, I, um, The, the, the companies, uh, and the, or I wouldn't limit it to companies. I would say the organization, because this goes out to NGOs, um, and foundations, uh, and, and everything anywhere where two or more people have to produce something together.
The ones that will succeed with this are the ones that think augmentation. I have two kind of basic principles. Whatever I do right now is 1x of what can be done, which means I always look at how can I make this 2x, 4x, 10x. And with that mindset, you always kind of reset. This is where I am now. How can I double it 4 or 10?
So the, the organizations that View this as a super powerful tool, just as powerful as the computer was when it was introduced on the internet, uh, and think augmentation instead of competition. It's not human, it's not a human competitor, it's a human augmenter. They will succeed. And with that comes, as you clearly pointed out, education.
Uh, we have to educate ourselves and our organizations how to use these tools and how to leverage them. We're still kind of dabbling with it. And that's all sorts of. Kind of society needs to do that, but educate and train people in how to, to manage, because you don't, now you're not, you don't have to talk, you don't have to talk about or manage yourself.
You have to manage someone else or something else. So, so hopefully. I kind of don't like the phrase self leadership that has been really trending for a long time because I think that's not the case anymore. We're talking about leading others is more important than leading yourself and being able to train ourselves in how to do that, how to take that step, how to think.
Okay. Can I get you to do this? What do I do with the result? How can I get you to engage with with someone else? How can I, how can I? It's kind of more question based than actually ticking off to dos on a to do list. Um, and that's the other mindset. The, the Like self leadership and productivity hype that's been going on for like the last 20 years.
You see all self help books is like how to become more productive, how to go to become, but we are recorrected. You, you don't have to be productive. You have to be creative and you can let the machine be productive. So hopefully we will get like the, the ticking of the to do list away and hopefully as forgotten as the fax machine soon.
I mean, so it's another way of thinking. It's, it's thinking about how can I lead these. agents, apps, or systems in a good way so they can produce a valuable output for me, for the organization, and for the world. Those who do that and, and always kind of think of it as an augmentation, they will, they will reap really nice benefits of this the next coming 10 years.
[00:31:31] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, and I love that. And I'm thinking also, again, it starts with any sort of rewiring of ourself. Um, the family teaching to the kids that, you know, those that have lost the opportunity of understanding how computer works, but not in terms of how computer works. I don't know.
But what they do and how to interact with it. That's an opportunity. And then it came with the Internet. And, you know, and those that instead of using your super powerful computer on your phone, they now include this A. I. And you're using it just to, I don't know, for social media and you don't use the resources that he has.
I think there is a lack of education. We're not, we're not embedding technology in our DNA and what we pass in our genetic. But I, now I'm going really sci fi here, but I think eventually we will, we will be very used to interact with this machine, which now they're very scary. I know people that are like, I can't talk to my, to an AI and then in answer back, I don't know, I'm scared about it.
There'll be a day they'll be totally normal. The Jetson, the Jetson will be here and you will talk with Robert. I mean, I
[00:32:56] Jonas Angleflod: think that that kind of, um, that kind of fear is natural. That was the same fear as we saw when the, when, when Gutenberg introduced the printing press. It was like the fear of low quality text.
It would flood the world with heresy and whatever. That didn't happen. It flooded the world with literacy instead. So I mean, and the same with the, uh, the, uh, the locomotive, the fear was if the body would move faster than 30 kilometers per hour, it would lead to sudden death. That wasn't the case. So I think we're, uh, we, we always react as, as a society and as a.
Species to change with a bit of fear. And I think that it's the same case here. It's definitely the same case, but you, you have a point. And I think I want to point that out as well, education and educating ourselves, not banning the tools in schools, embracing them in the schools is, uh, is probably only the sure way to, to, to make this.
Beautiful potential stay beautiful.
[00:34:03] Marco Ciappelli: I agree. And I think with that let's finish on these positive notes and uh, Let's not be Negative. I think the news are already Leveraging negativity against technology a little too much. So we're we're gonna do the opposite. We're gonna be positive and stay like that uh Jonas, fantastic conversation.
I really, really appreciate it. I hope the audience will take as much, uh, pleasure and knowledge that I got from this. So I hope they are thinking right now on how they can change their little things around or their company, their small business. Doesn't matter. I mean, I'd say jump on it. That's my advice.
And, uh, and try to understand how to leverage that. And for you again, thank you so much. And, uh, Come back anytime. I would love to have uh, to go even deeper in in this we can talk about
[00:34:57] Jonas Angleflod: anytime I'd be happy to be back. Thanks
a lot.
[00:35:00] Marco Ciappelli: All right. Bye everybody. Be sure to subscribe whatever you're watching and listening There'll be many more conversation coming your way from redefining society podcast and uh me take care​