Kenneth Goodis Gordon is a Ph.D. candidate with the University of Central Florida's Planetary Science Group. His research focuses on exoplanets and the search for life in the cosmos (astrobiology).
Guest | Kenneth Goodis-Gordon, Ph.D candidate and Graduate Research Assistant, University of Central Florida
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenneth-goodis-gordon-05217a130/
On Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/kenny.gordon.18
Host | Matthew S Williams
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/matthew-s-williams
______________________
This Episode’s Sponsors
Are you interested in sponsoring an ITSPmagazine Channel?
👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/sponsor-the-itspmagazine-podcast-network
______________________
Episode Notes
Kenneth Goodis Gordon is a Ph.D. candidate with the University of Central Florida's Planetary Science Group. His research focuses on exoplanets and the search for life in the cosmos (astrobiology). In a recent research paper, he and his colleagues recommend how studying polarized light from exoplanets could allow future observatories like the Habitable Worlds Observatory (HWO) to find evidence of life on other worlds!
______________________
Resources
Polarized Signatures of the Earth Through Time: An Outlook for the Habitable Worlds Observatory: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2410.02194
______________________
For more podcast Stories from Space with Matthew S Williams, visit: https://itspmagazine.com/stories-from-space-podcast
The Coming Age of Astrobiology with Kenneth Goodis-Gordon | Stories From Space Podcast With Matthew S Williams
Episode 87 - Ken GG
[00:00:00] The authors acknowledge that this podcast was recorded on the
traditional unceded lands of the Lekwungen peoples.
Good morning, and welcome back to Stories from Space. I'm your host, Matt
Williams, and with me today is a special guest, Kenneth Goodis Gordon. A Ph.
D. candidate at the University of Central Florida and part of the Planetary
Science Group. His research is focused on exoplanets and brown dwarfs, and
today we'll be discussing the question of life in our universe, aka astrobiology.
Kenny, welcome to the show. Thank you. Very honored to be here. Now, for
starters, can you tell me a little bit about what the Planetary Science Group at
UCF does? Sure. So the Planetary Sciences Group at the University of Central
Florida encompasses a lot of different uh, fields of planetary science. So we
have researchers like myself working on exoplanets and [00:01:00] brown
dwarf studies, but most of the group actually focuses on airless bodies of the
solar system as well as regolith studies of the moon, asteroids, Mars, and stuff
like that.
Fascinating. Yes. Now, in terms of astrobiology, you recently released a study,
which I had the honor of reporting on, called Polarized Signatures of the Earth
Through Time, an Outlook for the Habitable Worlds Observatory. Now, as I
understand, was this the first paper that you led? This is my second paper that I
have led, actually.
So this will be the second paper of my PhD dissertation. Excellent. Yes. Many a
time I've, I've spoken to scientists who have put out some very fascinating work,
and yes, generally it was part of their PhD, uh, their, their dissertation or their
thesis. So tell us how exactly did you come to the [00:02:00] field of
astrobiology?
Was it a long road or was there kind of a, a moment of incitement? What did it
for you? It's a little bit of both. Honestly, it was, um, kind of fell into it. To be
honest with you, I have always been interested in space ever since I was young.
I grew up in the Washington D. C. area. And so my family would always take
me to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.
And that really sparked my interest from a very young age. Um, And I've
always been interested in the planets and the stars. I had all of those star stickers
on my ceiling when I was younger that all the kids would have. And I couldname every planet and every constellation and stuff like that. So I've always
been interested in space and I wanted to explore that later on in life.
And as I progressed through my studies, I got more and more interested in The
planets of the solar system and so on. Um, and then eventually when the
exoplanet field really started to blossom when I was in high school [00:03:00]
with Kepler and tests and stuff like that, I found out that, wow, these are, there's
so many planets out there, not just in our own solar system, but in other solar
systems.
And it'd be really cool if we could figure out ways to characterize those to learn
more about those planets. And I will honestly say that, um, I was also
influenced a little bit from my love of Star Wars growing up, uh, with all the
planets that we had, um, that we see in the Star Wars franchise as well, and all
those different alien life forms and everything.
So, honestly, it was a combination of my love for astronomy growing up, my,
um, interest in it from that, as well as my love for science fiction, that kind of,
Came together as I entered my undergraduate studies and I started to focus more
on looking at the exoplanets themselves. And then I started in undergrad studies
with looking at hot Jupiter systems because these were the systems that we had
a lot more data on at the time.[00:04:00]
And that's the systems that Kepler Was focusing on which was still going and
giving us a lot of data at that time. So my undergrad research actually focused
more on transiting hot jupiter exit planets and modeling their thermal emission
from those planets. But then as I progressed through that, I realized that I was
still more interested in the actual earth 2.
0 out there. Um, And really see if we can narrow down, is there actually life out
there in the universe other than on Earth? And so I was very fortunate to be able
to start that research when I joined the planetary sciences group at UCF. Yeah,
in fact, um, another major aspect or, um, a focus of your work there, which
certainly comes up in the, uh, study I'm hoping to talk about with you, is the
modeling the flux and polarization of light.
Reflected [00:05:00] from the planet's atmosphere and surface. And yes. I was
just writing something about this, so it's pretty fresh in my mind. Yes, now you
mentioned Hot Jupiters, which was great because that immediately made me
think of, uh, that was, um, given the, I don't want to say limits of Kepler
because it showed us so much, but exoplanet studies with Kepler and with
TESS, With the transit method in, in general, right?It really tended to reveal massive planets more than anything else. And, and hot
Jupiters were relatively easier to spot because such a big planet moving so close
to its start, but the field has expanded considerably since. And we're actually
getting to the point where we could see rocky exoplanets. Yes.
In fact, why don't you take that? That's a bit. Basically, yes. Um, [00:06:00]
how are we getting to the point now, which, um, is of course directly related to
examining light from the reflected from these planets? Are we getting to the
point now where we could actually see rocky planets and characterize them?
Yeah, that's a great question.
So, like you were saying, as these missions have progressed with Kepler and
TESS and now with even the James Webb Space Telescope and the upcoming
missions like the Nanty Grace Roman Space Telescope and, um, Soon in the
2040s, I say soon the habitable worlds observatory. Um, we've been really
progressing and getting more advanced technology.
So the transit method has in the past and still currently has really been focused
on these larger planets because, as you mentioned, as they pass in front of their
star, they are able to dim the light of their star. And we know that. Okay. There
must be something passing in front at that time. Um, Okay. But with the advent
of these new technologies, now we are [00:07:00] even able to dim out the light
from the host stars themselves even more so that we can get down to seeing
planets that are even closer to these stars, because that's a lot of times where
these rocky planets will form.
And so when we're really looking at rocky planets, a lot of times, it probably be
much easier to look at them with direct imaging rather than the transit method.
And so. I'm sure your listeners have heard a little bit about direct imaging, but
just to give a brief overview of that, uh, as its name implies, that means just
looking directly at the exoplanet system itself rather than looking for signs of an
exoplanet from the dim of the light from its host star.
Now we are actually taking our instruments and we're taking pictures of these
planets out there. And with these newer coronagraphs, which are the,
instruments that block out the light from the star, we're able to get finer and
finer coronagraphs so that we are able to block out more and more of the
[00:08:00] light from the host star.
And by doing that, we can see closer in, and we can find these rocky planets.
Because these rocky planets are Relatively dim, especially compared to the hot
Jupiters, which are much hotter and bigger and brighter. And so, in order to seethose different planets, we need to be able to block out as much light as possible
so that we can get the light from those planets.
So, yeah, so we've been able to. advance our technologies more and more, and
now we can get to those closer planets, and now we can really analyze the light
that's coming off of them, passing them through our spectrographs, and get
more details about what exactly that light is coming from, in terms of their
atmospheres and their surfaces.
And, of course, it's not just the instruments that have gotten better over time,
right? It's the theoretical, um, in terms of theoretical research and so forth, what
we should be looking for has expanded quite a bit just from what I've [00:09:00]
seen. Yeah, and that's, that brings us exactly to, um, your paper, where you
started out by indicating that, Vital data is not being considered when we are
examining spectra from exoplanets.
There's been some constraints on, on what we have been looking for. So, yeah,
can you explain that to us? What exactly have we been fussing with and what,
what else do you recommend we consider? Yeah, so. A lot of times when
looking at rocky planets, our biggest goal is, does this planet have life? Could it
be an Earth 2.
0? But a lot of times when we're looking for potentially habitable exoplanets, as
we call them, we're really only trying to find planets that look like our current
modern Earth. And that really limits our limitations, or that really limits our
characterizations, because the Earth itself has had a very long history of
[00:10:00] habitability and non habitability.
Um, We've known on earth, for example, that life has existed for billions and
billions of years. Uh, not just the modern day earth with the humans or the
dinosaurs, even, or something like that. We have had microbial life for up to 4
billion years on earth. And so. While we've been able to constrain a lot of those
rocky planets that look like Earth, it would really be helpful if we could actually
constrain more of these rocky planets that look like earlier periods of the Earth.
Could these planets out there look more like a Proterozoic Earth, the eon before
the current eon, or even the eon before that, the Archean Earth? Could these
planets look Like this, so that we know, okay, maybe there's a possibility that
these planets could have microbial life, at least as we know it. Um, so while
we've been able to constrain a lot about these planets, atmospheres and surfaces
through the transit method that I mentioned through the direct imaging, we still
need more of these theoretical models to provide [00:11:00] even morecomparison points against these planets, 1 data point for the modern Earth really
limits us.
And so, based on your paper and the recommendation that astronomers should
also examine polarized light, and this could reveal biosignatures that would
otherwise be missed. What can you tell us about that? Yeah, so, a little bit of a
physics background here. So, a lot of times when we're talking about light,
Right, what we're really talking about is electromagnetic waves.
So this means that each of these light waves will have an electric field and a
magnetic field that will travel together through space. And when we talk about
the polarization of that light wave, that is determined by the orientation of the
electric field oscillations. And so if we have just one single light wave, Then
that electric field will be oscillating in just one direction, up, down, left, right, or
whatever.
And so we say that that light will be linearly polarized. Now if we have two or
more light waves that are [00:12:00] traveling together, their electric field
vectors will combine into a net electric field that will then rotate in space sort of
like a corkscrew. And so we'll then say that that light can be circularly
polarized.
And so the reason that polarization is really useful for exoplanet studies is
because most stars that we look at, especially ones that are similar to our own
sun, um, these stars produce randomly oriented waves. So all their waves of
light that we receive are oriented in every single possible direction.
So all of their electric fields basically cancel each other out. And we can
actually say that the light from those stars are actually unpolarized. But now,
when all of those light waves from that star, if they interact with something,
such as a planet that's orbiting the star, then that light can become polarized
when it reflects off of a surface or a cloud, or when it's scattered by, say, gases,
dust, or other aerosols in the atmosphere.
So when we're looking at that distant star and its [00:13:00] planet together, the
majority of the polarized light that we'll be seeing will be coming mostly from
the planet. And so the amount of light that gets polarized and the way that the
polarization of the light changes as the planet either rotates on its axis or it
orbits its star, that can tell us a lot about the atmospheric and the surface
properties of that planet.And then finally, I just want to point out because polarization is a vector
quantity, rather than just a scalar intensity like the flux is, the polarization is
extremely sensitive to the location of specific features on the planet itself. So, if
the planet was very uniform, for example, so like if it just had, you know, one
full surface, like a pure rock surface, or if it was entirely covered by clouds, for
example, then the polarization that's reflected or scattered from different parts of
the planet, those would all sort of average out to an unpolarized glow.
But if we had like patchy [00:14:00] clouds or hazes like we do on our own
earth, or if we have different surfaces, Across different parts of the planet that
are moving in and out of view, like our own Earth, then the interactions of the
light with those different features can result in a net polarization, and we can
use that to learn more about exactly what we're looking at.
So that's why polarization is very, very helpful for these studies, especially for
Earth like exoplanets. Yes, thus really helping with the whole transition from,
uh, The discovery process to the characterization process. Yeah. Well, and then
you mentioned surface features. I'm wondering, um. This has been a big sort of
promise as far as direct imaging studies go being able to discern features on the
surface there.
Would that include vegetation? It does. Yes. Vegetation has a very specific
surface feature actually, um, that we can see in both flux and polarization.
However, [00:15:00] the polarization can be slightly higher. in terms of the
signal, and that's referred to as the vegetation red edge. So this is a specific
feature that occurs at around 700 nanometers, or right at the end of the visible
spectrum, in the red part of the spectrum.
And what we see is that at this particular wavelength, the chlorophyll that we
see in all of the vegetation, at least on Earth, results in a very sharp increase in
the reflectivity. or at the same time a very large dip in the polarization of the
light around that specific wavelength. So if we see that rise in the flux or that
dip in the polarization, we know that there must be vegetation like forests,
forests, or grasses, or stuff like that.
Yes, I was really hoping you'd say red vegetation edge because That was one
thing that, uh, yeah, for myself, looking at, uh, the research over the years, it
was, that was a big takeaway. And we do that with, with Earth [00:16:00]
observation satellites right now. We're tracking vegetation, forests, their growth
and their, how they're receding.So a technology that helps us track climate change or forest fires and the state of
Earth's biome there, that could actually also lead to the discovery of life on
another planet. Definitely, there is another very important feature that we can
see in polarization, especially that is very big for surfaces, which is the ocean
glint feature.
So this is a feature that result, uh, results from light reflecting off of an ocean or
any other body of water. This glint can be seen. If we're looking, if we're
tracking the polarization or the flux of the planet as it orbits around its star,
there's a very specific point in the orbit Where the light that's coming from the
star and reflected back to the observer results in a very large [00:17:00] increase
in the flux and an increase in the polarization as well.
And so that is referred to as the ocean glint signature, which is also a very
important signature when looking for life. or water on other planets. And that's
especially promising, isn't it? And just reminded us something here and correct
me if I'm wrong, but the scientists can currently gauge whether or not a planet
has water based on indirect methods.
Um, for example, it's a mass and its size, you got a sense of its density, and also
they can measure hydrogen escaping to space. Yes. Which, as we know, is the
result of water vapor being broken down by, yeah, solar radiation and, uh, the
hydrogen whips off into space and the oxygen stays around. So, this would be
kind of the clincher, right?
We, we now know that this planet has water on its surface, [00:18:00] and it's,
yeah. And, uh, yeah, and, oh, and of course, the crucial balance between, say,
land masses and oceans. Yeah. Because, if I recall correctly, scientists do
believe that both are essential to life. Definitely. Yeah, there needs to be a
proper balance of both the surfaces for the life to actually end up on, and the
water for it to have that energy and Water is essential for all life as we know it.
Yes. Yes. Now, I think we've covered this part of in spades here, but um, the
The next obvious question is that with your research considerations that stuff if
astronomers start doing that then yes, it's it's going to create a lot of research
opportunities with uh with web With the one observatory we have that has that
capability of doing direct imaging, [00:19:00] but also for Nancy Grace, it's it's
the next one coming.
And. And this was in your paper, it was a vital part, the Habitable Worlds
Observatory. Yes. First off, can you tell us a little bit about the Habitable
Worlds Observatory? Because so far all I've heard is a lot of promising, well,promises, but not much. Definitely. Yeah, so the Habitable Worlds Observatory
is basically going to be the next James Webb Space Telescope.
So NASA is already looking into the future, past Webb, past even the Nancy
Grace Roman Space Telescope, because we wanted a telescope that could be
designed specifically to look for Earth like exoplanets around sun like stars. So
with the James Webb Space Telescope, for example, it coronagraph instrument,
um, but that instrument itself is Not yet, at least to our knowledge, really
[00:20:00] able to look down to Earth like planets around some like stars.
We have seen some rocky planets with the James Webb coronagraph, but these
planets are around smaller stars. The M dwarfs, um. Which makes it easier
because there's less light to block out for the James Webb coronagraph. And so
we're still able to see those rocky planets. But if we want to get to the sun like
stars, um, we need a better coronagraph.
And so NASA put out this, um, decadal survey, which is a very large document
of all the plans that NASA wants to do for the next 10, 20 or so years. Um, and
a part of that decadal survey was, okay, we need this new telescope. And that
became the Habitable Worlds Observatory. So as its name suggests, it is
specifically designed to look for, they say in the, um, decadal survey, 25 Earth
like exoplanets around solar type stars.
And so, [00:21:00] HWO, the World Observatory, is still very much in its
preliminary design phase. There's a lot of working groups that are out there right
now, working on exactly what should be included in the telescope, based on all
of the descriptions that are in the decadal survey. So, nothing has been finalized
yet.
We do know that there will be a coronagraph. Um, and we do know that there
will be some instruments like a spectrometer, um, and an imaging system that
will be able to image all of these systems and to monitor their spectra of the
light that we receive. Um, other than that, there is nothing really that has been,
uh, confirmed so far.
Um, and so that's why a lot of scientists like myself, who mostly focus on the
theoretical aspect of it, we're working on creating all of these models that can do
that. then we can give to the engineers and say, based on our models, this is how
we think that you need to create the instruments in order to see exactly what we
want to [00:22:00] see.So scientists like myself, who are very interested in polarization, we're really
pushing for there to be a polarimeter on the Hab World Observatory, because
right now, for example, the James Webb does not have a polarimeter.
Nantigrace Roman Space Telescope will have a polarimeter, but again,
polarimeter Because of the instrument limitations on that specific telescope, we
still won't be able to measure the polarization of very small planets, but we will
still be able to hopefully measure the polarization of giant planets around some
smaller stars.
Yes, and in fact, the Habitable Worlds Observatory, this was a merger of sorts,
of two concepts that were part of NASA's What's Next After James Webb.
Okay. And these concepts were, which ones? There were two. Yes, they were
the, uh, LUVOIR telescope, which is the Large Ultraviolet, uh, Optical Infrared
[00:23:00] Telescope, as well as the HAVEX telescope, or the Habitable
Exoplanet Telescope.
Um, and so yes, both of these telescopes were, sort of the precursors to the
Habitable Worlds Observatory. Ever since we've known that we want to do
something beyond James Webb, a lot of people in the community started to
come up with these different design ideas for these upcoming telescopes. So,
LUVOIR actually had two different designs.
There was a LUVOIR A and a LUVOIR B. They were basically the same
telescopes. except that one of them was larger than the other. And both of those
LUVAR designs were basically just the James Webb Space Telescope on
steroids. So it would look almost exactly the same, just a much larger version of
that giant, uh, football sized starshade that we know for James Webb, but even
bigger.
And then it would still have that segmented primary mirror. And then the
Habeck's telescope was sort of based [00:24:00] off of the Hubble Space
Telescope design. It would have a large barrel on it that would sort of help to
block out and protect the main mirror. That main mirror was going to be just a
single mirror instead of a segmented mirror.
And so, Yeah, when Habitable Worlds Observatory was, uh, confirmed to be
the next telescope, a lot of the people in the community said, okay, well, why
don't we sort of combine all of these different ideas that we had for LUVAR and
HABEX? Let's keep a segmented primary mirror, um, but let's try to maybe put
a shroud on it or that long, Cylinder basically in front of it to help protect it.So again, as I mentioned, Habitable Worlds Observatory is still definitely it's a
preliminary phase. And so a lot of different ideas are coming in as to its optimal
design. Um, but most of those ideas are being taken from the LUVAR and the
HabEx studies. So, [00:25:00] coronagraphs, spectrometers, polarimeters, am I
saying that right?
Yes. Just thinking of the range of instruments, that's good. And there will be
ground based telescopes, like the 30 meter class of telescopes that are planned.
They're going to be able to help with all this. And for them, well, yeah,
spectrographs, coronagraphs, adaptive optics. And is that possible with the
ground based telescope?
Yes, actually, um, all of the observations that we have gotten so far of polarized
light from brown dwarfs, for example, those measurements have been taken
from ground based facilities. So, we do have on a bunch of these ground based
facilities, and there are that are being planned for the 1 that you said, the 30
meter telescope, or the, um.
The Magellan telescope as well. These upcoming extremely large telescopes
should have polarimeters on them that will allow us to take polarized light
measurements of these planets. Well, [00:26:00] now, as a bit of a side note, as
when you mentioned Star Wars and how, yes, I mean, that, that was something
that, uh, well, those of us who were old enough to see it when we were kids.
Yeah, and Star Trek. There were just, there was a lot of that going on in our
youths, yeah. How could we not have at least some interest? But, um, in terms
of, yes, exoplanet finds in the not too distant future, uh, do you have any, any
favorites, right? Is there an exoplanet that you say, I want to see that one, and I
want to find that one.
Oceans, etcetera. Or are there any like Star Wars analogs or Star Trek analogs
you're you're hoping we'll find out there? I would love to be able to find a, um,
water world like Camino where the clones were [00:27:00] on, for example, a
very. Large planets that still is habitable, but is entirely covered in water, and
there is actually a lot of work being done on those specific types of planets.
We call them the hyacinth worlds. So these are water world exoplanets that are
completely covered with oceans. Those would be really fun to explore more and
to be able to determine whether those could have life on them. Similarly, I've
always been interested in Naboo, which is a very Earth like planet.Planets of star wars. Um, and so all of those earth like planets. I'm really
interested in Um, it might be a little difficult to find something like tatooine for
example because it's around two stars Um, but I know that that is a very favorite
planet of a lot of star wars fans um But just because it's a desert fully desert
planet There's not really any water and the fact that it orbits two stars might
make it a bit [00:28:00] harder to detect You Um, but detecting such a planet
would be very fun as well.
Mm hmm. And Arrakis, although, uh, yeah, it's like, well, depending on your,
which franchise you're particular to, the desert planet is the one that many of us
want to find. Yeah, uh, ourself as well. But, um, in terms of like, say, Proxima
b, the Trappist planets, and, Many, many, many rocky planets we found in red
dwarf systems and, uh, and, uh, a few sun like systems.
Yes, any of those? Are any of those, uh, in your mind, like, yeah, I'm hoping,
I'm hoping to get a look at that one, or you think that that's a, like, a good
candidate? Yeah, so I'm, I'm really hoping we can find more about Find out
more about the TRAPPIST 1 system. This is a system, as I'm sure a lot of your
fans know, of seven rocky exoplanets [00:29:00] all orbiting around a very
small M dwarf star.
And I think it's three, if I remember correctly, of those planets are actually in the
habitable zone of their star, meaning that they could potentially have life on
their surfaces. A lot of work is being done with the TRAPPIST system, and I'm
pretty sure that that is a target of these future missions that we've been
discussing.
Um, so being able to learn more about. Those planets that are in the habitable
zone of Trappist 1 would definitely be very interesting because that would
basically mean that, oh, there's another system out there, very much like our
own solar system. You know, it has multiple planets. It has a potentially
habitable planet.
Um, and that'd just be really cool to learn more about that system. And I
remember a lot of the research coming out and it was really exciting news. Like,
if you could stand on any one of these planets, The next one over like both
closer to the star and further from the star. [00:30:00] They'd be about as clear
to you as the moon is in our night sky.
And that's their, their proximity and their positioning. But actually, there's really
good odds for, um, lithopanspermia, right? For Yes. Change of, uh, microbes
between them. So, yeah. Definitely. Wow. Yes. I, I hope that all those threeplanets would be friends and not, you know, just find ways to destroy each other
by the time they met up, which, oh, can you imagine a space program that is
easy as flying to the moon?
But yes. Um, yeah. Okay. Well, anything else you'd like to add at this point?
There's a, this is a very fertile topic. Yeah. I mean, Um, I'm just hoping, like I
said, that all of our models that we've been running, um, with my research group
and with other similar research groups who are looking at the flux and the
polarization, [00:31:00] I'm hoping that all these models can provide, um, A
good, um, theoretical basis for why it would be important to include those
polarimeters.
Like I mentioned on the have awards observatory and the extremely large
telescopes, um, because now we have these models to provide comparison
points against these upcoming observations. Um, so I'm really hoping that. My
work, uh, and the work of my collaborators can help push the community
towards finding these habitable planets for sure.
Absolutely. And of course, as I, as I often say, and it's always very true, uh, I
wish you luck and I'm, I'm, I'm pulling for this. I'm excited to see where this
goes. There are many a time where, um, research is. Put in front of me or, uh,
you know, I come across it and it's like, yes, it's all interesting, but there
[00:32:00] it's, there are always those few where it's like, yes, God, I hope
they're right.
God, I hope they get funding or they managed to develop this because just how
cool would that be? It would be very awesome for sure. And I'm very hopeful.
I'm very hopeful. And. Uh, very excited about the possibilities that are in front
of us and in particular, uh, well, you mentioned finding planets that are different
stages, like similar to Earth, different stages in their evolution that would
resemble different geological periods.
So, yeah. Are you also hoping, I know I would be, are you also hoping to find,
uh, yeah, uh, a pre Cambrian Earth 2. 0 and, uh, um, one of the major geological
periods? Um. Yeah, I would definitely love to be able to find, um, like, uh, a
hazy Archean [00:33:00] Earth, because one of the, um, main stages of Earth,
we, we, Think, at least from evidence that, uh, the earth was enshrouded in
these hydrocarbon, um, hazes that are very similar to the modern cases that we
see on Titan, uh, the moon around Saturn in our own solar system.
Um, so to be able to see a hazy, uh, rocky exoplanets. Like that, you know, like
Titan or like the early Earth would be extremely helpful. Um, and I think thatthat would be very, very cool to be able to find something like that. Agreed.
Well, I want to thank you so much for coming on. This was a very interesting
chat.
And yeah, like I said, Like I said, good luck. Thank you very much.