What happens when someone with a multicultural worldview, startup grit, and a relentless focus on inclusion sits down to talk about tech, humanity, and the future? You get a conversation like this one with Abadesi Osunsade. We touched on everything from equitable design and storytelling to generative AI and ethics. This episode isn’t about answers — it’s about questions that matter. And it reminded me why I started this show in the first place.
⸻ Podcast: Redefining Society and Technology
https://redefiningsocietyandtechnologypodcast.com
Title: The Human Side of Technology with Abadesi Osunsade — From Diversity to AI and Back Again
Guest: Abadesi Osunsade
Founder @ Hustle Crew - We train ambitious & inclusive teams in tech & beyond
WebSite: https://www.abadesi.com
On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abadesi/
Host: Marco Ciappelli
Co-Founder & CMO @ITSPmagazine | Master Degree in Political Science - Sociology of Communication l Branding & Marketing Consultant | Journalist | Writer | Podcasts: Technology, Cybersecurity, Society, and Storytelling.
WebSite: https://marcociappelli.com
On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marco-ciappelli/
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⸻ Podcast Summary ⸻
What happens when someone with a multicultural worldview, startup grit, and a relentless focus on inclusion sits down to talk about tech, humanity, and the future? You get a conversation like this one with Abadesi Osunsade. We touched on everything from equitable design and storytelling to generative AI and ethics. This episode isn’t about answers — it’s about questions that matter. And it reminded me why I started this show in the first place.
⸻ Article ⸻
Some conversations remind you why you hit “record” in the first place.
This one with Abadesi Osunsade — founder of Hustle Crew, podcast host of Techish, and longtime tech leader — was exactly that kind of moment. We were supposed to connect in person at Infosecurity Europe in London, but the chaos of the event kept us from it. I’m glad it worked out this way instead, because what came out of our remote chat was raw, layered, and deeply human.
Abadesi and I explored a lot in just over 30 minutes: her journey through big tech and startups, the origins of Hustle Crew, and how inclusion and equity aren’t just HR buzzwords — they’re the foundation of better design. Better products. Better culture.
We talked about the usual “why diversity matters” angle — but went beyond it. She shared viral real-world examples of flawed design (like facial recognition or hand dryers that don’t register dark skin) and challenged the myth that inclusive design is more expensive. Spoiler: it’s more expensive not to do it right the first time.
Then we jumped into AI — not just how it’s being built, but who is building it. And what it means when those creators don’t reflect the world they’re supposedly designing for. We talked about generative AI, ethics, simulation, capitalism, utopia, dystopia — you know, the usual light stuff.
What stood out most, though, was her reminder that this work — inclusion, education, change — isn’t about shame or guilt. It’s about possibility. Not everyone sees the world the same way, so you meet them where they are, with stories, with data, with empathy. And maybe, just maybe, you shift their perspective.
This podcast was never meant to be just about tech. It’s about how tech shapes society — and how society, in turn, must shape tech. Abadesi brought that full circle.
Take a listen. Think with us. Then go build something better.
⸻ Keywords ⸻ Society and Technology, AI ethics, generative AI, inclusive design, tech innovation, product development, digital transformation, tech, technology, Diversity & Inclusion, equity in tech, inclusive leadership, unconscious bias, diverse teams, representation matters, belonging at work
Enjoy. Reflect. Share with your fellow humans.
And if you haven’t already, subscribe to Musing On Society & Technology on LinkedIn — new transmissions are always incoming.
https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/musing-on-society-technology-7079849705156870144
You’re listening to this through the Redefining Society & Technology podcast, so while you’re here, make sure to follow the show — and join us as we continue exploring life in this Hybrid Analog Digital Society.
End of transmission.
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Marco Ciappelli: [00:00:00] All right. And here we go. The red light is on — on air. I like to make that joke because I love radio. But we’re actually not on air — we’re recording. I love to treat it like it’s live because it keeps the conversation natural.
This is the Redefining Society and Technology podcast. My guest today is someone I was supposed to meet in person in London during Infosecurity Europe, but it got a little crazy. So we said, “Hey, let’s reconnect,” and thankfully, Abba — it’s very nice of you to take the time to meet with me.
I figured, you know what, let’s just talk about technology in general. We don’t need to focus only on cybersecurity. We’re not in London anymore at Infosecurity Europe, and I feel like it’s going to be a really fun conversation — especially because we already chatted a little bit before hitting record. I should’ve recorded that too, but hey, here we are.
So welcome to the show. I’m really excited to have you.
Abadesi Osunsade: Thanks for having me. Yeah, really great to be here.
Marco Ciappelli: How about we start with a little introduction about who you are? I know your background is very multicultural, and you keynoted at Infosecurity. So, tell us a little about where you come from and how you got connected with technology and cybersecurity.
Abadesi Osunsade: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.
I’ve been fortunate to work across a spectrum — from big tech like Amazon to small startups like Groupon before the IPO, Hotel Tonight, and most recently Brandwatch, a SaaS company offering social listening tools. I was their first-ever Global VP of Community and Belonging.
Now, I focus on my business, Hustle Crew. Our mission is simple: help ambitious teams in tech and beyond become more inclusive. We do this by educating them on things like unconscious bias, curiosity, and empathy. Especially in an AI-obsessed world, I believe these human traits are key to building products that have a meaningful social impact and truly serve a diverse society.
As you mentioned, my multicultural background plays a huge role in this. My dad’s from Nigeria, my mom’s from the Philippines. I grew up surrounded by so many cultures. We went to a very diverse church. I’d attend community meetups where you’d hear all kinds of languages and see people from every continent.
My dad worked as a diplomat for the IMF — a UN agency — and by the time I was a few years old, I’d already lived in four or five countries: the U.S., Tanzania, Kenya… I went to international schools, and every playdate felt like stepping into a new country. We had World Culture Days — we’d wear our traditional dress, bring local food.
So before I was even a teenager, I’d internalized that difference is amazing — and good. But when I entered tech, things changed. My first job was at Groupon in London. Because we were growing so quickly, there was a lot of diversity. But as I climbed the ladder — companies like Amazon — I noticed fewer women, fewer languages, fewer cultures.
That’s when I started Hustle Crew in 2016. I thought maybe if I built community, talked about this more, and helped companies, I could do my part to tackle what’s preventing the industry from becoming more diverse.
Because when you live in a city like London — you ride the Tube and see every type of person. But then you walk into a WeWork, and it’s just white male engineers. What’s going on?
So yeah, that’s what I focus on now — through Hustle Crew, my podcast Techish, the articles I write, everything.
Marco Ciappelli: Mm-hmm. Yeah. When I stay in London — to make it easy to reach the Excel — I usually stay off the Elizabeth Line in Whitechapel, which is a very Bangladeshi community. I walk the streets and feel this vibrant diversity. I live in LA too, so I’m used to seeing a lot of that, but I grew up in Italy, where I am right now.
I relate to everything you just said. I found myself in a similar position when I started in tech and cybersecurity — mostly white dudes, and I’m one of them, so I can say that. But it’s the truth.
That’s when I started looking at things from a sociological and psychological angle. And you realize — when you have diversity, you create products that work for everyone. You build better products. I think most people can agree on that.
Yet somehow, we’re still talking about this — clearly not everyone got the memo.
So what’s your take on that? What could be a tipping point for real cultural behavior change?
Abadesi Osunsade: Great question. Before we hit record, we were talking about philosophy, ethics, sociology, and how all of that increasingly intersects with tech.
As for how I handle the repetitiveness — or resistance to change — it all comes down to influence. That’s what education is. It’s a way of saying: “Hey, here’s a new way of thinking that could be valuable to you.”
But influence is personal. What works for one person doesn’t work for another. So mass education only works when it meets people where they are.
At Hustle Crew, we use every tool possible. Sometimes we use storytelling — take the film Hidden Figures for example. It showed amazing Black women mathematicians at NASA. People were like, “Wait, I didn’t know that!” That’s one way to open minds.
Other times, we use data. Some folks say, “I see women in tech all the time.” But then you show them the numbers: less than 1 in 5 tech workers are women — even fewer in R&D or engineering.
Or we go personal. If someone says, “Women aren’t great coders,” I’ll say, “Do you have a daughter?” They’ll say, “Yes,” and I’ll ask, “How would you feel if someone told her she couldn’t be an engineer?” And suddenly, they get it.
You have to meet people where they’re at.
The hard part? Sometimes, education requires people to rethink their identity. And people don’t like that. Nobody wants to feel wrong, ashamed, or guilty.
If you say, “Hey, you’ve benefited from privilege,” they start wondering, “Wait, did I not deserve my success?” That’s a hard emotional journey.
So the framing has to focus on opportunity. What can we do now?
How do we make work cultures where women want to stay? How do we support parents? How do we make sure returning mothers aren’t written off as less focused?
I don’t believe we’ll ever live in a world where the playing field is completely level — because we naturally prioritize issues that affect us directly. So it’ll always take time, education, and effort to make people see what they don’t yet see.
Marco Ciappelli: Absolutely. I could talk about storytelling all day — I actually have another podcast just about storytelling. And in cybersecurity too, it’s about translating tech into business, tech into culture. Storytelling is key.
And I love what you said — the moral of the story may be the same, but you need to tailor the delivery to the audience. As a speaker, you have to read the room.
And let’s be honest — this “us and them” mindset is deeply human. It’s not always malicious, but it’s there. We have to constantly work to overcome it — there’s no switch that flips us into utopia.
So let’s pivot. Beyond workplace culture, how do you see diversity showing up in consumer technology? Have you seen examples — or proof — that diverse teams build better products?
Abadesi Osunsade: Great question.
Where this really hits home for people is when stories go viral.
Remember when TikTok first launched? There were videos of Black expats in China trying to use automatic hand dryers — and they wouldn’t activate unless they used the light-colored side of their hand. It didn’t register dark skin. That went viral.
Then there was the launch of the Apple Watch. It had this comprehensive health app — but no period tracker. Women were like, “Really? I still need a separate app for that?”
Or the study out of Georgia Tech — self-driving cars failing to recognize dark-skinned pedestrians at crosswalks. That was terrifying.
It often takes those stories for people to go, “Whoa, this could happen to us too.”
At Hustle Crew, we work with companies like Wayve — a major autonomous vehicle startup in the UK. One of the things we remind teams to do is look around. Who’s not in the room? Those are your priority beta testers.
Even I — as a Black and Asian woman — can’t speak for someone with a disability, or someone with a different body size or shape. As I tell my team: assumptions are dangerous.
So we use those viral stories to create urgency, then help teams do better — by getting more perspectives in the room.
Here’s a shortcut I use: most products are built for the most advantaged people — which is logical in business. You’re targeting people with money, access, education.
But imagine if we flipped that — and designed for the least advantaged people. Those products would still work for everyone else. They’d likely work even better.
Marco Ciappelli: Exactly. And often they end up being more thoughtful, more inclusive — more usable.
Abadesi Osunsade: Yes. Take the Barbican Centre, one of our clients. It’s iconic. But it was built in the 1960s — no one thought about wheelchair access or people with mobility needs.
Now in the 2020s, as they aim to become more inclusive, they’re working against those physical constraints.
The point is: if you start by considering accessibility, you’ll make something that works for everyone.
I don’t need a ramp — but I can walk one just as easily as stairs.
Marco Ciappelli: Totally. And think about public transportation — you might not have a disability, but maybe you hurt your knee. That flat platform helps. Same for strollers, bikes, pets…
Abadesi Osunsade: Exactly. It levels the playing field for everyone.
But people often say, “We don’t have the time to rethink this.” That’s a false economy. You’re just deferring the problem — and it grows more expensive the longer you wait.
Marco Ciappelli: Exactly. Retrofitting always costs more than building it right the first time.
Abadesi Osunsade: Yep. So you can either address it now… or address it later, when it costs more — financially and socially.
Marco Ciappelli: You know what I want to talk about in the time we have left? The evolution of technology itself. We’ve reached a point where we have generative AI, simulation, robotics, massive data… So instead of technology being a consequence of our thinking, maybe now it can help us shape better societies.
Like how in medicine, AI can simulate drug trials and find solutions faster — maybe we can simulate inclusive product outcomes before launching something.
Do you see technology helping us get to a better place? Are we there yet, or getting closer?
Abadesi Osunsade: That’s a really interesting perspective.
I feel torn. At my core, I’m optimistic — I do the work I do because I believe it makes an impact, and I see that reflected in data and feedback.
But at the same time — and I think you’ll appreciate this from your social science background — I’m very aware that we are our biggest problem.
The reason we haven’t built that ideal society isn’t because we lack the tech. It’s because of our very human brains — brains that haven’t evolved much in thousands of years. We’re stuck in tribalism, scarcity mindsets, anxiety, fear, isolation. Social media has made that worse — especially among young people, who struggle to build real, meaningful connections outside of screens.
One of my concerns about AI is that it might divide us even more. Think about who owns generative AI today — it’s a small group of people. We already know wealth isn’t trickling down from big tech. And these same folks are experts at avoiding taxes, so it’s not like the public is seeing the benefit of their success.
There’s also the skills gap. I was at my father-in-law’s 70th birthday recently. My husband and I use AI every day, but many people there hadn’t tried it once. It reminded me how fast the world is changing — and how many are being left behind, just like people who never got smartphones.
You’re right — tech can help build empathy. There are VR applications where you can experience prejudice from another person’s perspective. There are video games exploring themes of discrimination and systemic inequality.
So yes, I think we’ll continue to see tech used for positive influence, and I’m excited about that. But we also need to hold companies accountable — they wield enormous power, and create massive environmental impacts too. They need to invest in fixing the harms they’re creating.
And as individuals, we shouldn’t shy away from these tools. I see the same fear now that I saw with early programming. People say, “Oh that’s too technical — I’ll never understand it.” And then they fall behind.
I hate when kids are told not to use AI. I get it — it can hurt critical thinking, and that conversation matters. But it’s a tool, and it’s not going anywhere. So instead of banning it, we should teach them to use it creatively and responsibly.
Otherwise, it’s like telling a kid not to use a calculator — you know they’ll just wait until the teacher leaves the room.
Marco Ciappelli: Totally agree. And I appreciate that you’re able to see it from both sides — I can flip from utopia to dystopia in three seconds flat.
Even training data for machine learning is full of bias. These tools amplify what we give them. So yes, education is key — not just how to use the tool, but why it works the way it does. We have to teach people to make informed decisions.
Because it’s not about banning AI — it’s about guiding how we build and use it, and making sure it serves us, not the other way around.
And society today is more diverse than ever — people travel more, interact across cultures more. If you’re closed off now, it’s probably a choice. That wasn’t always the case.
My dad is 87 — he’s totally anti-AI. But my mom is a writer, and at 75 she’s using generative AI to experiment and create. That contrast fascinates me.
Abadesi Osunsade: I love that. It’s a perfect example of how it’s not about age or background — it’s about mindset.
One thing I’m watching closely is how these platforms evolve. Right now, using generative AI is a pleasant experience. It’s better than Google in some ways — no ads, no AI summaries, no SEO-cluttered content. You ask something, and you get a clear answer.
But long-term? I wonder what happens when these companies get even more focused on profitability.
Because capitalism is predictable. Ads are coming. Monetization is coming. And when that happens, trust starts to erode.
There’s a Black Mirror episode where someone pays for a consciousness-preserving subscription plan — and over time, they start getting ads streamed directly into their brain. To skip them, they have to pay more.
And I wonder — is that the future of AI too? Will we have to pay extra to avoid sponsored bias?
Marco Ciappelli: I can already see it. Like product placement in movies — back in the day, you’d see a cigarette or Coke logo and it was obvious. Nobody disclosed it.
Soon your “friendly” AI will give you advice… that’s secretly an ad. And you won’t even know, unless you pay more for the premium, ad-free version.
Abadesi Osunsade: Exactly. That’s what I’m watching closely. Because right now, we trust these tools — but that relationship could shift quickly.
Marco Ciappelli: Well, I’m excited to keep having these kinds of conversations. This podcast isn’t about giving answers — it’s about making people think. And I think we’ve done that today.
Abadesi Osunsade: I hope so! This was such a great conversation.
Marco Ciappelli: I’m really grateful for your time. These are relevant, timely topics, and I’ll be diving into your podcast too — what’s it called again?
Abadesi Osunsade: Techish. It comes out weekly. It’s me and my friend Michael, another tech founder. We talk about the stories we find most interesting — startups, tech, culture, entrepreneurship, society. It’s all connected.
Marco Ciappelli: Absolutely. It’s all part of the same conversation. And it’s a two-way street — tech influences society, and society influences tech, often without us realizing it.
Thanks again. I’d love to have you back for part two someday — there’s so much more we could talk about.
Abadesi Osunsade: I’d love that. Thank you so much!
Marco Ciappelli: And for everyone listening: stay tuned, subscribe, share, and definitely connect with Abba. I’ll drop her website and LinkedIn in the show notes.
Thanks again — it’s been a pleasure.
Abadesi Osunsade: It really has. Thank you.
Marco Ciappelli: Thank you!