ITSPmagazine Podcasts

The Medium is the Reality: Immersive Storytelling through Augmented and Virtual Reality | A Conversation with Thibault Mathieu | Audio Signals Podcast With Marco Ciappelli

Episode Summary

In this episode of the AudioSignal Podcast, I’m excited to discuss the rapidly evolving world of storytelling through augmented reality with Thibault Mathieu. Join us as we explore the intersection of technology and storytelling, the creative process behind AR, and its exciting potential for the future.

Episode Notes

Guest: Thibault Mathieu, Founder and CEO, Wilkins Avenue AR

On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/thibaultmathieu/

On Twitter | https://x.com/thibaultmathieu

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Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast & Audio Signals Podcast

On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli

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Episode Introduction

Hello, everyone. I'm Marco Ciappelli, and you’re tuned into another episode of the Audio Signals podcast. If you're familiar with the show, you know that storytelling is at the heart of what I do—exploring how we communicate, how we connect, and how stories evolve to reflect the world around us. Today, I’m particularly excited because we’re diving into a whole new dimension of storytelling: augmented reality (AR).

Our guest is Thibault Mathieu, a pioneer in immersive storytelling from Paris, whose journey took him from dreaming of directing movies to designing AR and VR experiences that are pushing the boundaries of what's possible. In our conversation, we explore not only the how but the why behind AR storytelling—why it captivates us, why it challenges traditional narratives, and why it’s starting to become a game-changer in entertainment, marketing, and even our daily lives.

Note about the title
The reference in the title is to Marshall McLuhan’s famous concept, “The medium is the message,” from his 1964 book, Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man. McLuhan argued that the medium through which content is delivered profoundly shapes and influences the way we perceive and interpret that content. His idea suggests that the characteristics of each medium (such as television, radio, or print) are just as impactful as the actual message conveyed, because they transform the way information is received and understood by an audience.

In the context of AR and VR storytelling, this idea resonates because these technologies aren’t just new ways to tell stories—they actually redefine the experience itself. With immersive reality, the medium (augmented or virtual reality) becomes an interactive space that the audience can inhabit, creating a new form of engagement where the "message" or story is inseparable from the experience of being in an altered or enhanced reality.

A New Dimension in Storytelling

We’ve all seen storytelling evolve through the ages, from spoken words to books, radio, and film. But with AR, we’re stepping into a realm where stories don’t just exist on a page or a screen—they inhabit our physical spaces. Thibault’s work in immersive storytelling lets us experience narratives in a way that feels tangible, as if the digital world is blending with our own surroundings. Imagine walking into a scene where elements of a story appear around you, transforming the way we relate to both the story and the space we occupy.

The Role of Technology in Crafting Emotional Connections

Thibault and I discussed how new tech like Apple’s Vision Pro and Meta’s Quest 3 is closing the gap between reality and digital experience. The "uncanny valley"—that uncomfortable place where things look almost real but not quite—is beginning to fade. These advancements mean that creators can build worlds where the lines between what’s real and what’s imagined are blurred. And with that, storytelling gains an emotional weight that goes beyond passive viewing; it becomes something you can feel, something you can be part of.

Redefining Storytelling on New Platforms

Thibault's latest project, Out There, takes advantage of AR’s unique qualities by immersing audiences in a musical experience designed for this latest wave of AR headsets. Imagine not just listening to music but feeling surrounded by the narrative and emotions of the song, like the soundtrack of your own adventure. The technology lets us dissolve the usual boundaries, putting the audience right at the heart of the story and letting them interact with it in real-time. This is more than just a new way to tell stories—it’s a step towards storytelling as an experience you live.

Transforming Brand Experiences Through AR

The conversation wouldn’t be complete without touching on the power of AR in branding. Thibault has been working with luxury brands like Lancôme to create experiences that go beyond showcasing products. These projects aim to weave a brand’s identity into an interactive, immersive experience that people can feel a part of. When done well, it’s not just marketing—it’s storytelling that resonates on a deeper level, connecting audiences to brands in ways that can be more meaningful than traditional advertising.

Embracing the Future, One Story at a Time

Looking forward, Thibault sees a world where AR isn’t just for niche experiences but is integrated into our daily lives, enhancing tasks, entertainment, and social interactions. Yet, as he and I agree, while the technology is fascinating and transformative, the story itself remains paramount. No matter the medium—whether a simple conversation, a song, or an augmented reality experience—a powerful story is what captivates us, resonates with us, and, ultimately, stays with us.

Thanks for joining me on this journey through the future of storytelling. Thibault, thank you for bringing your insights and passion to today’s discussion. For those curious to dive further into this world, check out the links to Thibault’s work and Out There below.

As always, remember: We are made of stories. So let’s keep telling them, in every dimension and every medium we can imagine.

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Resources

 

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Episode Transcription

The Medium is the Reality: Immersive Storytelling through Augmented and Virtual Reality | A Conversation with Thibault Mathieu | Audio Signals Podcast With Marco Ciappelli

Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.

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[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Hello, everybody. Welcome to a new episode of AudioSignal podcast, where, as you know, my name is Marco Ciappelli and I'd like to talk about storytelling. Storytellers, the people that tell the story and, uh, and stories. And so that, as you know, I like to say that we're all made of stories. Our society is based on that. 
 

Before printing, uh, before Gutenberg, before pen and paper, or it's sizzle and a stone. We're still telling story one another and that's how we pass knowledge and how we grow as a society. Sometimes we could grow a little bit better, but you know, we make our mistakes. Today I'm very excited because we're going to talk about not the past of storytelling or the traditional way to say, to tell stories, but actually what is the future and the present, which is using. 
 

virtual reality and augmented reality and all the fun stuff that now we can do with goggles. And maybe we'll touch on the metaverse a little bit as well. Um, I feel like we could go there and, um, and I don't know, it's going to be a conversation. It's not script. So I'm excited to have this conversation with, uh, Thibault, uh, Mathieu, uh, from Paris, France in this moment. 
 

He's in Paris. I'm in Florence, Italy. So, uh, You know, but I know that we both spent time in LA, so who knows, maybe one day we're gonna meet there. Anyway, thanks to technology. It doesn't matter where we are. So, Thibaut, welcome to the show.  
 

[00:01:35] Thibault Mathieu: Thanks for having me, Marco.  
 

[00:01:37] Marco Ciappelli: Well, thanks for being here. Why don't we start a little bit with, uh, what I usually ask to people that are coming to this show, which is who, who, who are you? 
 

What, what you do? What is your passion and what makes you a storyteller in a form or another.  
 

[00:01:55] Thibault Mathieu: Sure. Uh, well, again, thank you so much for, for having me on the show. It's great to be here. Um, You know, I've, as far as I can remember, I've always been passionate about new ways to tell stories. You know, when I was a kid, you know, I was, uh, you know, writing little stuff. 
 

Uh, I wanted to be a movie director, you know, when I was younger, uh, which is also why, you know, we were discussing just before, uh, our passion for, for storytelling, the entertainment industry and the fact that, you know, we also both lived in LA, uh, and it was really You know, uh, because of that passion and now, you know, that I'm a grown up, um, that's always, you know, what, what drives me now is trying to find new ways again to To tell, to tell these new kind of stories. 
 

And we use technology for that. Uh, and now, you know, with the release of, uh, as you said, like augmented reality, virtual reality, glasses, goggles, headsets, uh, now it's opening up a huge field of opportunities to tell these stories and that's what I'm personally super excited about.  
 

[00:03:11] Marco Ciappelli: And that's really exciting. 
 

And I can see people being. conservative about the idea of changing the way we use story, but I think they forget that we went, as I said at the beginning, from telling story around a, you know, a fire, maybe a fireplace in a house or in a, in a field. And then, and then, Print came out and radio came out and television came out and, you know, the big screen and all of that. 
 

And this is just another iteration, I think, of the way that we can tell stories. Um, I would like to start this conversation with maybe the technology aspect of it. What makes it possible now and actually enjoyable? Versus maybe what 10 years ago was possible.  
 

[00:04:08] Thibault Mathieu: Sure. And, you know, hearing you also talk about, you know, the genesis of storytelling, uh, it's true. 
 

And if you look at like the last, I would say 150 years, what's fun to sort of notice is Obviously, you know, it's my more screens. Uh, and the fact that these screens are getting closer and closer to us. So, you know, it started, you know, in the movie screen. So you big screen far away. Uh, then obviously you had the TV, you know, they came into our living room. 
 

Uh, you had the PC, you know, that got a bit closer on your desk. And then you had the smartphone, you know, that. came right in your hand. Um, and so it was just a matter of, you know, of time before the screen actually came to, to our heads, basically to our, uh, you know, glasses to replace our glasses. Uh, obviously, you know, I think the next iteration of that will be lenses directly, you know, into, into our eyes to, See the world all around you augmented by layers of information, layers of experience. 
 

And that's, you know, uh, so obviously it's a bit scary. Um, but at the same time, it's, uh, it's, it's also, uh, again, exciting in terms of the, the possibilities. Um, yeah.  
 

[00:05:26] Marco Ciappelli: Okay. So when, when I got in contact with your, uh, public relation PR department, You were just releasing some kind of immersive musical. You're going to tell me more about that yourself, which was, if I remember well, available for the last, the latest generation of goggles for like Apple, I believe, and, uh, and, uh, the latest one from, from Facebook as well. 
 

So, um, tell me about what made that particular. production, maybe a big leap for, for the industry and for the way that we can tell storytelling.  
 

[00:06:12] Thibault Mathieu: Yeah. So just like a quick word of context and background also about, you know, me, um, I've been in immersive for 10 years now. Um, so, you know, I, I, I was at the Early days of vr, you know, when Oculus was acquired by, by Facebook at that time. 
 

Right, right, right. Now meta. Um, and so, you know, I've, I've seen the, the, the, the hype of the , the, you know, the, of vr, uh, ar, uh, the Metaverse. You know, obviously it goes up and down, uh, over the years, um, in this particular experience that we just introduced, uh, on, on the new generation of AR headsets, we actually first. 
 

Uh, created it, uh, it was a location based augmented reality experience on a previous generation of AR headsets a few years ago called the Magic Leap, uh, which basically, you know, uh, it was for Comic Con, uh, and so it was the first ever, and it still is, musical created for mixed reality. So basically the idea was that you would enter like a physical room, physical location. 
 

In that case, we can go into the story, uh, a bit deeper after. Uh, but in that case, it's a little girl's room. Uh, and so you enter the room, that room equipped with the glasses and you would see like all the panties, you know, starting bursting into song. You have Liv, who's our character, the little girl that starts singing. 
 

Uh, so it's kind of as if you were in, in the middle of a Broadway musical. Uh, and. We had such an incredible, like, emotional response from the audience, uh, that kind of really, really surprised us. And I think that's when I started really realizing that the fact that when you bring, you know, impossible things, into, uh, the, the viewers reality, it creates, you know, uh, connections, I think in your brain that basically eliminates, uh, uh, all the barriers between the user, the viewer and the digital content that you submit, that you offer to them. 
 

And so emotionally the response is Obviously much bigger and much deeper, uh, than obviously when you watch something on a, on a, on a screen, on a 2d screen, because now, you know, it's all around you, uh, with, but again, without cutting yourself from your own reality. So that was back then. Uh, and. Then, you know, we went on to work with, you know, big brands and things like that. 
 

And now 2024, uh, that the new generation of AR headsets has come out, meaning the Apple Vision Pro, uh, which is an amazing device, uh, and the MetaQuest 3 that also allows us to, uh, uh, create great augmented reality experience. We completely re imagined that experience, that musical, it's called Out There for this new generation of AR headsets. 
 

So, uh, that's, it's, it's a completely, uh, again, like a new experience that's specifically designed for these two headsets. Uh, and yeah, that really just came out on both the Apple Vision Pro store and the And the MetaQuest 3 store, uh, and, and so far the, the, the response and the reviews are, are really great. 
 

So we're super happy.  
 

[00:09:38] Marco Ciappelli: Let me, let me ask you this. Um, so the, the idea of the uncanny valley, right? When, when something is, is there, it seems real, but there's something off. And I feel technology for a long time, video games and all of that. You're like, yeah, it's kind of feels weird. Now, I've seen a few things in the Apple headset and I've seen the preview of this movie. 
 

I haven't actually seen this musical that you created, but I can tell that the idea is that it feels really alive, right? So you think now with the technology we have, we can eliminate that uncanny valley feeling that people feel uncomfortable and they can really, wow, I really am inside this world. Yeah. 
 

Yeah. Is that the response you had?  
 

[00:10:30] Thibault Mathieu: Yeah, I think it's a, it's a really good point. Um, it's still there to some extent, I guess. Uh, I think to me, the uncanny valley is really like when you have like, you know, an avatar that's trying to be hyper realistic, uh, that starts, you know. Uh, like, like, you know, the, what they call the meta humans, uh, that, that start, you know, talking to you. 
 

Uh, but now with again, like, especially the Apple vision pro, we're getting to that point where like the resolution is so good that you, uh, actually forget that you're wearing a headset. So, and, and that's true for two things. It's true for the, like the, the resolution and the quality of the 3d content. Uh, but it's also true for what we call pass through augmented reality. 
 

So basically it's the fact that when you're wearing the goggles, the headset, again, you still see your real world environment, but it's like, it's really like two cameras that basically Projects, you know, uh, the world that you're looking at, uh, and there's so little latency, uh, and, and the, the, the resolution again is so good that it really feels that you're, you know, just watching reality with your own eyes. 
 

And at some point you forget that you're wearing the headset. And that really, as you said, uh, I think it eliminates, uh, the, the uncanny valley before, I think before the Quest 3 from Meta and the Vision Pro from Apple, uh, the pass through quality, uh, of, you know, uh, AR, the real world environment, it was super pixelated. 
 

Uh, the quality, the, the, the, the colors of the image were really different than obviously when you look at the world with your own eyes. Uh, and so you could. Really tell people you could really see that obviously you're not looking at the world with your own eyes But now it's really difficult to To see the difference and you could really easily forget that you're wearing the headset But at some point hey, there's something, you know, like a 3d character. 
 

That's that's that's Talking to me, uh, as if I was in a, in, in my real world, uh, environment.  
 

[00:12:44] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah.  
 

[00:12:45] Thibault Mathieu: So yeah.  
 

[00:12:45] Marco Ciappelli: Tell me, tell me something. I'm very curious because I just had a conversation with, uh, with a writer. He does fantasy already brought a couple of trilogies and they were transforming his world into a video game. 
 

And we talked about adapting something when it goes cross media, like you go from one media to another. You know, as a writer, obviously you have your idea in mind and then you can make a movie, you can make a video game. I feel like when you actually do 3D, you, you, you step into a completely different dimension. 
 

You get into multi dimension. How, what has been your experience or what do you like, not like, um, about creating stories for, for the, this new technology? What is different?  
 

[00:13:40] Thibault Mathieu: You know, at the end of the day, I think what matters is not really the technology that we deploy on, uh, it's, you know, it's a good story. 
 

You're also a writer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously. I mean, I know it's kind of cliche to say that, but it's really true. Uh, you know, uh, what matters. What story we want to tell and then you know what, obviously what, what media we're going to tell it on? Is it a book? Is it a TV show? Is it a video game? Is it a an AR experience? 
 

A VR experience? What's true though, is that I think that we we, you know, approach storytelling in AR in a very different way than let's say what we would do in VR, because in virtual reality you yourself are completely like teleported into a fully immersive virtual imaginary world, right? Whereas in AR or MR, uh, it's imaginary element that are teleported into your world. 
 

So it's, it's really different. I think the way we would, you know, uh, approach what we're going to say and how we're going to say it in terms of, you know, the writing storyboarding, um, that's, uh, we, we're really straight. And I think now, you know, we were getting to that point of expertise, uh, with me and my team. 
 

Where, you know, we, we, we know now what works well in AR and what doesn't work. For instance, you know, when you, when you create a portal, uh, let's say, and that's actually the case in, in out there. So basically, uh, you're in your living room, uh, you're looking at a blank wall. And all of a sudden the world will open to this magical window into a magical universe. 
 

It's a 3d portal. And so. Just looking at that, creating a new room in your room, and blending that into your real world environment, and having these three elements coming, you know, at you, I think is is super, super powerful in terms of, in terms of storytelling. So that. To go back to your question, that's really what excites me, uh, a lot, is always trying to, uh, come up with innovative ideas, uh, as to creating a story that also happens. 
 

In your life, in your real world environment, and you know, uh, it's still a very much of a blank page because this technology is super new. Um, so we're all, you know, trying to again, figure out what works and what doesn't work. Uh, and obviously we're not, we're still like experimenting a lot. And that's also, I think, part of what's, what's fun in creating these experiences. 
 

[00:16:27] Marco Ciappelli: And I, and I feel like, so as you're saying all of this and I'm kind of processing, From a marketing perspective, like first of all, we're talking about pretty expensive, very expensive in the Apple world tool to actually experience this the right way. So that could be already a barrier for a certain audience. 
 

Um, and another thing that I was thinking is, do you need to be in a, in a, in closed space? Do you, can you see these? creation, this movie that you're talking about, if you are in your garden outside, or do you have this limitation where, I mean, it's a room, you say, so imagine you need to be in a room in order to work, but that's a question for you. 
 

And I want to wrap that into who is your audience right now? Because I'm thinking kids, because I saw the, the trailer. It's, it's, It's like a Disney, you know, musical, uh, sounds like it. I'm a big Disney fan myself, so I could, I could hear it. Uh, but yeah, I mean, but is it a little girl that can put a 5, 000 goggle machine on the head and look at it? 
 

So I'm curious about who is watching this.  
 

[00:17:43] Thibault Mathieu: Yeah. So first question about, you know, uh, experiencing these stories, uh, Into like a nice outside, you know, environment like a garden. Yes. Uh, technically it's possible. Um, it's, it's not, uh, a main like usage of, you know, people, uh, doing AR, uh, and Um, also because, you know, there are a lot of still, you know, uh, limitations with the technology in terms of the lighting. 
 

Uh, you don't want to be in a too sunny environment, uh, cause that. Can mess up, you know, a lot of things, you know, in terms of tracking also, because what's a big thing in AR is tracking the content. So basically when it plays an object, a 3d object into your world, you want to, you want it to stay there. So  
 

[00:18:41] Marco Ciappelli: measuring the depth. 
 

[00:18:43] Thibault Mathieu: Exactly. So let's say I have a 3D character that's there. If I move the head and I go back, it still needs to be there because, you know, if it moves with you, obviously it cuts the sense of immersion and the fact that it's anchored into your world. And I think that's what, that's really what makes these experiences magical is the fact that these, again, imaginary elements are like anchored into your real life world. 
 

So, like, you know, all those, um, And same with, you know, movements, uh, all those videos, you know, that, that you saw of users, you know, coming out of their, uh, Tesla Cybertrucks wearing, uh, an Apple Vision Pro and walking like that. They  
 

[00:19:25] Marco Ciappelli: are being convinced about that, to be honest. It's  
 

[00:19:27] Thibault Mathieu: completely fake, obviously, because there's no experience that moves with you. 
 

Right. And especially on the Vision Pro, it's really not made for movement. So first thing, and to go back to your second point about the audience. So that's a very good question. Um, I'm a father of two young kids. Uh, and so they're like six and five and I'm not gonna, you know, put a headset on their head until they're at least two years old. 
 

You know, 10 or 12.  
 

[00:20:05] Marco Ciappelli: Good call, good call, I agree. And  
 

[00:20:08] Thibault Mathieu: I, you know, and I would not, you know, obviously advise to do that with kids because I think you need to have a certain, I mean, really young kids. Uh, maturity to understand, you know, what's again, what's real and what's not real. So let's try first to educate them on, you know, the reality. 
 

So difficult to do right now, especially, you know, with the rise of, you know, fake news, AI, uh, deep face and things like that. So, um. If you add, you know, uh, technology, uh, that makes them see things that are not real, uh, that could become sort of a problem. So I think, um, first of all, I think as these devices are going to become more and more mainstream, uh, it's going to be super important also that, like, states, uh, regulate, like, legally on, on the usage of these, uh, these technologies for kids. 
 

That's super important. But, you know, same thing for, for smartphones. Uh, I don't think I Six year old kids should have a smartphone or an iPad. Um, but that's maybe like being very French conservative. Um, but that, that being said, I think the experiences that we create, uh, they can appeal to, you know, 12 year old, uh, from a 12 year old to a 70 year old. 
 

And as you said, you're a Disney fan. I'm also a big Disney and Pixar fan. Uh, and that's kind of also our, uh, ambition is to become the Disney of XR of, of mixed reality. Um, and I think there's no real age, uh, to sort of, uh, uh, experience these, uh, these, these stories. So, yeah, but not for very young kids.  
 

[00:22:01] Marco Ciappelli: The audience knows that I actually write with my mom, which is over 70. 
 

Uh, short stories for kids. Well, she just started not too long ago. So we always try to think, is this for the kids and that's the fine kid. So we just say it's for. Kids and all the young at heart, right? You're right. Ninety years old and love this kind of thing. I can watch Disney Pixar Every day, you know And all of that so I agree with you, but you need to put it into context that of course, you know There is reality and then there is that but you know, it's good for people to to imagine story and that's what about. 
 

So let me go to as we have a few more minutes here. I know you're very busy, so I don't want to take too much of your time, but I know that I also come from the advertising world and I know that you guys work with big brands and I have always been fascinated by me. Advertising, especially in Europe, sorry, America, a little less in the United States, but the UK, France, Italy, they've always been doing really good ads since, you know, the eighties and even before. 
 

Um, and I always look at advertising as a 30 second movie, a one minute movie. I mean, it has to tell a story. It has to be fascinating. It's not just about showing the product otherwise. We go back to what you said. It's about the story. It's not about the technology, right? So your experience in applying this to a new way of doing marketing and The other question is, is it working or are we just doing it because the new technology is fascinating or bring something really new to the table that is going to stick with, with the consumers? 
 

[00:23:53] Thibault Mathieu: Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, you know, uh, All of us in the team, uh, we all come from an entertainment background. You know, it's the case for me as the CEO, our lead 3D director is actually one of the creators of the Minions movies. Uh, yeah. And. So we were not really like, um, targeting, you know, uh, working with big brands. 
 

Um, but so our first major experience was the one we did again, like, uh, entertainment for Comic Con. And actually, um, the brand Lancôme saw it, uh, and they loved it and they started Approaching us to create an experience, an in store experience on an AR goggles, you know, and so there was our first commercial project for Lancôme, uh, at the flagship store on the Champs Élysées in Paris, where you would enter the store, you know, being equipped with a headset, the AR headset, so you still see the store all around you. 
 

You see The products, you see the people, you know, the, the, the salespeople, the, the, what they call the beauty advisor all around you. And you still see this amazing flagship store scenography, which, you know, without any kind of 3d content is already beautiful. Uh, but all of a sudden you see, you know, flowers growing around you. 
 

You see that magical portals that open up to virtual world, you know, Blanco, you have like virtual guys that take you throughout this experience. So it's. It's all about, uh, again, like augmenting that already beautiful, uh, setup and, and, and scenography. And so we, we did that first project, uh, which they really loved. 
 

And then we did many more, uh, with, with Lancôme, L'Oréal and many other brands. And now when we get approached, you know, by brands like. Cartier, Hermes, and others. Uh, it's because we come from an entertainment background and the, all these big luxury houses, companies, uh, the, I think their main focus is not just like on, you know, immediate ROI. 
 

It's. about how do I tell my universe, my, my brain story, my brain universe in so many ways. Uh, and these, again, these new technologies, and I think that's why they like working with us is because we try to really like position ourselves as Storytellers and not as marketers. Uh, and so that's really, really true. 
 

I think for, for big luxury houses and that's why they make so such amazing, as you said, uh, uh, beautiful luxury ads, uh, it's because it's like a mini movie, um, and they're always looking for new ways to tell their stories, to embark their users, their customers into their universe. Uh, and that's just one more way to, to, to do it. 
 

[00:26:54] Marco Ciappelli: All right. So last one, last question is, every time there is a new technology we think is going to take, all the past is going to disappear, you know, journal, journal, magazine are going to go away, newspaper because the radio came, the radio is going to disappear because the TV, we have a song about that too, it didn't happen. 
 

And then other things, uh, the internet and so forth. Do you see this being this augmented reality? Um, reality way of making movies or short movies or entire movie is something that it's going to change the way that we, that we want to see movie. I mean, do you, do you think everybody one day, and I'm being extreme here, I know you're going to, I don't think I'm crazy, but I'm not just saying, is it something that it could become normal to. 
 

Like you see in the sci fi movie to put your goggle on to watch TV and to go shopping maybe or I don't know. It's one niche in together with other,  
 

[00:28:04] Thibault Mathieu: I mean, you know, I hope it's going to obviously become, become way more mainstream than what it is now, because, you know, we, we have also to face the fact that there are still not a lot of people, you know, equipped with this right now  
 

[00:28:21] Marco Ciappelli: as well. 
 

Yeah,  
 

[00:28:22] Thibault Mathieu: exactly. I mean, I mean, it's getting, uh, that that's true for the upper vision pro, which is like, like almost 4, 000. But like the MetaQuest 3S that was just announced at MetaConnect a few weeks ago, uh, is going to be like 300. So, you know, it's, it's, and I think that's also part of, it's, it's a good strategy, obviously, to, to make it more mainstream. 
 

I don't think it's going to replace. As you said, uh, when, you know, the, uh, a lot of technologies, you know, started appearing, you know, everybody, you know, afraid that it would kill the previous order. Obviously, it's not going to be the case. Um, I still think, uh, if you look at, you know, a long term view, um, you know, when I was in the subway, uh, this morning in Paris, obviously, you know, everybody's like that, you know, when you, uh, we are like in the business district of Paris right there. 
 

Uh, and I see a lot of people, uh, passing by here. Uh, everybody's like on their phone. I think it's really possible that in just a few years, uh, people are going to work around with. Very small glasses, just like the ones that you're wearing now,  
 

[00:29:42] Marco Ciappelli: uh,  
 

[00:29:43] Thibault Mathieu: and they're going to see things that you don't see. Uh, and everything they could do, you know, uh, in the palm of the hand, uh, they're going to be able to do just by blinking, by talking to their, you know, uh, AI assistant, uh, by maybe just doing like a few hand gestures. 
 

Um, and so I, I, it's, Probably also, uh, if we go a bit deeper into like perspective further, um, going to change the way we project ourselves. Um, you know, I could really see a future where I wake up in the morning, I can choose. The avatar I want to display, you know, for all the people that I'm going to, that I'm going to encounter that day. 
 

And same thing for like virtual makeup, everything you can do on a snap, on a snap lens, or in a team meeting, you know, with those, those virtual makeups, things like that, it's probably going to happen also in the real world. And so, yeah, it's, I think, I really think down the line, uh, it's, uh, going to become mainstream. 
 

Uh, Meta just introduced their Orion glasses. Which are again, very sleek, very thin, uh, right now it's still, uh, very much of a prototype. It's still a proof of concept, but it shows like the 10 year, I think, vision and ambition. And obviously so much money is put, you know, uh, on the table by these big companies, uh, that it's. 
 

It's very likely it's gonna, it's gonna happen.  
 

[00:31:17] Marco Ciappelli: No, I love this and we could, I mean, I love talk about the future and technology so we could talk for a long time, but what I want to close with, because I know you have to go and we are at the 30 minutes mark, is that I want to go back to what you said at the beginning when I asked you what makes a good product of augmented reality and immersion and is a good story. 
 

I think that's still at the core of either we're writing, sharing a song, taking a picture, making a painting, whatever, tell a story. If the story's not good, you can use the technology. Yeah, it's gonna be like, oh my god, this is incredible, but you're not gonna You're not making it your own. And, and I think you need, you need a good story to do that. 
 

[00:32:03] Thibault Mathieu: Absolutely. And I think also going back to out there, you know, the experience we just raised, I think it's why people, you know, love it so much because right now, especially with Apple, it's been remarketed as a, you know, productivity tool, uh, that kind of. Replace your MacBook, uh, but not as much as a storytelling tool. 
 

And that's why a lot of people, a lot of users, you know, are so into that. It's just because it's a, it's a cool little story that uses technology to convey emotion and not just take just for the sake of doing tech.  
 

[00:32:40] Marco Ciappelli: Yep. Absolutely. And we're all made of stories. So they better be good ones. We're screwed. 
 

So, uh, , thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope the audience did the same thing. And there'll be links to connect with you to, uh, the company, to watch the movie on YouTube, and then if they have the, the tool that we'll watch the, the whole immersion, the full immersion movie, augment the reality. 
 

So stay tuned. Subscribe and well, thank you again so much for me. Thanks so much, Marco. Thank you. Take care everybody.