In this episode, Jennifer Brick, CEO and Founder of Capdeca Solutions, discusses how high employee turnover rates often reflect deeper issues within company leadership and culture. Learn how organizations can improve hiring practices, foster autonomy, trust, and respect, and create a stable, engaged workforce.
Guest: Jennifer Brick, CEO & Founder, Capdeca Solutions
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferbrick
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmem-D5aeCsSRyXTZkH_gKQ
Twitter: https://www.tiktok.com/@jenniferbrick
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ccjenniferbrick/
Website: https://www.capdecasolutions.com/
Host: Dr. Rebecca Wynn
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/rebecca-wynn
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Episode Description
In this episode of Soulful CXO, host Dr. Rebecca Wynn speaks with Jennifer Brick, CEO and Founder of Capdeca Solutions and known as "Your New Career Bestie" on YouTube, about the leadership and cultural factors driving high employee turnover. Jennifer explores how misaligned hiring practices, unclear role expectations, and toxic workplace cultures contribute to churn. She emphasizes the importance of fostering autonomy, trust, and respect to create a thriving workplace, offering actionable insights for leaders to address turnover at its roots. Whether you're a business leader or job seeker, this episode delivers practical strategies to build stronger teams and healthier organizational cultures.
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Resources
Career Glow Up (book): https://www.capdecasolutions.com/career-glow-up-book
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Thrive: Proven Paths to Career Growth! | A Conversation with Jennifer Brick | The Soulful CXO Podcast with Dr. Rebecca Wynn
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Soulful CXO. I'm your host, Dr. Rebecca Wynn. We are pleased to have with us today, Jennifer Brick. renowned as your new career bestie. She started her career in software training. She grew her career through technical industry, l and d, professional services and client services.
She's the CEO and founder of Capdeca Solutions. The company aims to help passionate corporate professionals succeed at work. She's author of Career Grow Up, the host of the Top Career Success Channel on YouTube,
Jennifer's advice has been featured on Fast Company Business, insider, Newsweek, and many, many more. Jennifer, my friend, welcome to the show.
Jennifer Brick: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here chatting with you today.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: One of the things that we're finding today, Is, there's frustration with the employer who have high churn because they're saying, we're not hiring the right people. And then you're having people going to jobs like, wait, this is not what I bought into. It's not, you know, it's not what was written on the paper.
I had a CEO who said, let's be clear, we have a high churn rate [00:01:00] because we keep hiring the wrong people.
Jennifer Brick: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: wasn't addressing the internal culture issue.
Jennifer Brick: if there's a high churn rate, it's a company issue. it could be they don't understand how to spec out the requirement, so they don't fully know how to run their business. So they keep on hiring the wrong person because they don't know. What they actually need to be hiring for. So there's an expectations versus reality where they're miscommunicating their needs
But even if that's the case, it's still a leadership issue. So if there is a high churn rate that that. That's a moment where people need to look in the mirror and evaluate, okay, what is causing us to make the mistake in hiring again and again and again versus, no one wants to work. Everyone is lazy, which is, I know, kind of common discourse that's out there, especially as kind of, you know, as, over the last few years, we've gone through the great resignation. We have quiet quitting. We have quiet firing, . We have all of the these things going on that have always existed, but now they have terms. And I think [00:02:00] that what people need to step back and realize is that none of this phenomenon is new, but I think what has been amplified is, the way that I put it is that a lot of people, their BS tolerance has gone down to zero, especially with all of the stressors that have gone on, kind of the craziness in the economy, craziness in the world over the last few years. They don't wanna tolerate a bunch of stuff. So I think when it comes to, as an individual in the seat, is this the right job for me? Is this the right environment for me? There's, I could probably rattle off 200. Like different indicators of a toxic work environment
But I think. Ultimately a toxic workplace. The signals that it comes down to is do you have autonomy, trust, and respect? Without autonomy, a workplace is going to be toxic
autonomy means different things to different people.
So if your boss says this, then this is that. we're individuals, so I don't wanna put a blanket statement, but autonomy for all adults, really important thing. Trust, because [00:03:00] if people don't trust you, you don't trust others and you won't, you'll stop trusting yourself. And that's a very dangerous road to go down.
respect physical psychological emotional safety, and support to do the job that you do so well. And to know that your work is going to pay off, whether it's. You know, some level of job stability, whether it's getting a promotion, whether it's having a recognition, whatever it is that you're working towards.
Those are the three things that I encourage people to really focus on, to determine am I in a good spot in my career, or do I need to start plotting my escape?
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I agree especially plotting your escape. I've gone into jobs and jumped out quickly, and my peers too.
We didn't even announce that I'm here for six weeks. My boss says he doesn't have time to read my emails or explain what's going on, that's very dangerous what do you see along those lines?
I hear that a lot. they use job descriptions grabbed from the internet. Not saying specifically what you're gonna be doing.
Jennifer Brick: the big issue in the tech industry over the last few years because [00:04:00] VC money was given out, like candy.
So they had the ability, I saw someone. Made a remark about, one of the big tech companies essentially like just collecting workers like dolls. And they're like, I was hired to serve no purpose other than they just wanted to hire me so no one else could. Which is such a weird phenomenon, and I know, I don't think that's good for, from an employer's perspective, for an employee engagement, retention, employer branding, but also for an individual like we have jobs to get paid.
Let's not mince any words about that. Even that, if that's not a primary motivator, it is a motivator.
But also in terms of hiring there really needs to be, what does the business need right now and what are they going to need six to 12 months sometimes managers. spot a need. there's a lot of budget hiring that can happen with companies of like, I need this person, I need this role, and I'm just going to find the least expensive person, which is going to be an inexperienced person who [00:05:00] doesn't fully know the job, but then they don't have the bandwidth to train the person.
So it goes back to that issue of hiring the wrong person. yes, you hired the wrong person without the experience needed you gotta pay more to get the person who can do the job. is that something you've experienced or witnessed?
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah, I have. And I, you know, I recently was, was helping us start up, had about 600 people and then when I was looking at security governance compliance and help desk, they had like, I dunno, 32, 35 people. And I said, it is not a, butt in the seats issue, it's a process and improvement issue in that you're hiring people who are very inexperienced if you pay more money and get people experienced.
We know how to augment processes and procedure things along those lines. It's not a butt in seats, but if you look at hypergrowth, absolutely. Ooh, we're growing this many people. And that's where you've seen the contraction.
Jennifer Brick: Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Very quickly because you're like, I don't need five people to do that, then I'm not being very good fiduciary with my budget.
That could be used to be doing other stuff or paying the more skilled talent.
Jennifer Brick: Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: That leads me to ask I hate the word transparency anymore cuz I don't think [00:06:00] transparency being transparent, I don't like where people say, Ooh, it's psychologically safe anymore to ask questions. you try to work with human resources to resolve issues, and then pretty soon let's find out you or other people are on the blacklist very quickly and I know you talked about this a lot, is HR friend or foe, and what should you share? What shouldn't you share?
Jennifer Brick: how long do we have? I feel like this could be a long run for me. I was peripheral in the HR world close with a lot of HR leaders HR is a very important skill. we need to go back to the history of HR to understand its role in business and the context in which it serves.
HR first emerged to keep unions at bay. it has evolved past that, and I know that most people that go into HR are there because they wanna help people. They wanna have positive impacts on culture. I. they're going in for good reasons, but ultimately HR is there in order to protect [00:07:00] the company and they are still, existing and functioning at the, at the will of the executive team. They still have a boss that they are answering to, so really hr, I've seen so many times where they have the best intentions to address issues. create safe spaces and enable open discourse But it matters what culture, the leadership at the top is setting. Because if leadership doesn't truly want the level of transparency that the people on the lower rungs that are building the company wanna have, that's going to create conflict this is where we can start to perceive a lot of lip service.
I've worked with companies that say they're all about transparency, but then every single person I speak to will say that it is the most secretive, siloed organization that they have ever existed in. So how can we reconcile those two things? we need specificity I can tell you my value all day until I'm blue in the face.
my values are what I live by. [00:08:00] as a leader, who hires people, I want to make sure that I am providing my definition. It's not just a value on my website. What does this look like? in practice? as a leader, one thing that I always did when I was interviewing candidates, I would encourage them to ask specific questions to the team.
What's it like to work with me? How does this actually show up? Because this is how they could gain an understanding both of the team function, the company culture, but also my, like their, what their experience is me as leader was going to be. Because I could say, you know, I have direct discourse with you, and they might, envision that to be very different than what it actually is. And that could be a good thing. It could be a bad thing. Right. so having, I think we also, I. Something that companies and HR can do is make sure that not everybody is going through career coaching and learning how to interview not Everyone has interviewed for as many jobs as I have over my career.
to learn those. a lot of questions [00:09:00] especially as we get more experienced come from falling into ditches, right? Like I know that I've had this bad experience now and I never would've known to ask this question, but now I know what to look for,
companies and HR can benefit employees and job candidates. By providing more education especially if they're transparent. It increases transparency throughout the process.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: So what are the kind of things that you can advise people on when they're looking for that job?
Jennifer Brick: one of the biggest flags is the dynamic in the interview process.
Are they just interviewing them or do they expect you to interview them as well? Because if they are consuming all the time with questions that they have for you, That's a red flag you are supposed to be figuring it out as well. It's not that you're just, you know, so desperate for any job and should like gravel on their feet, upon their feet.
Should you have the pleasure of receiving a job offer, you need to be figuring it out as well because while they know their company, you know Your skills. there [00:10:00] needs to be mutual questioning. And if that's not being provided, that to me is a very big red flag. I also think that the treatment you receive, a red flag.
I can tell you a story from when I first immigrated to New York. getting your first job when you immigrate to the US. Is a way harder thing when you're not kind of American passing like I am. Until they looked at my resume and knew I was on work authorization
I was in an advanced stage. With a mid-size startup in New York City The role was created for me. I knew they wouldn't be able to hire anyone better than me. So for the last stage of the interview, they had me come in to do a presentation, which I think everyone knows that these are very common, especially in client facing roles.
they tried to disrupt me. So there was multiple people sitting in the room. one kept interrupting another taking phone calls, another eating. And you know, there's we're me and you were both facilitators. We know how we would deal with this if we were training a group of [00:11:00] people.
But when you're in interview situation, this is a very different thing, right? So you're not gonna respond as you would typically respond. You're probably just gonna go with it. And in your head, you're freaking out. And at the end of this presentation, the lead interviewer was like, we, we did this to mess with you to see how you would respond.
I was like, do I just walk out right now? I didn't wanna burn a bridge because. Tech communities are smaller than we think I ended up sitting in for the rest, and then they were like, well, the, our S V P is gonna come in and talk to now. And I was like, I was not expecting to meet the S V P today.
thanks for the warning. Can I escape? But anyway, he came in, talked at me, not giving me any opportunity to ask questions. Talked for 15, 20 minutes about how if I should get this job offer, I would be so indebted to him that I would need to. Stay for at least five years for him to get an ROI (return on investment).
Again, bear in mind, this job description is written for me with my exact experience, which was fairly niche, [00:12:00] and then just like walked outta the room at the end, and I did end up getting a job offer, which was 50% of market value, they were shocked when I declined it. things aren't always going to be that big.
Sometimes they can be much subtler than that. But I think looking at the attitudes, the other thing that I always love, especially in those situations where there is multiple people in a room, which I think as an interviewee is stressful, but look at how people are interacting with each other and what, even if you're just going onsite for an interview.
Show up early observe and eavesdrop If the office is dead silent, maybe that's not an environment you're gonna dig.
Maybe that's your perfect environment, knowing what you're looking for and what an environment suits you is going to also help you identify those subtle flags as well as the major flags in the interview process.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Yeah, I noticed if you have panel discussions, who are in those panels, and then are you making me sit in the lobby waiting an hour in between those panels?
Jennifer Brick: Yeah,
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: did you offer me water? Did you offer me anything along those lines? How are you showing [00:13:00] me value as a human?
Jennifer Brick: Absolutely no, the interview stage is where they should impress you
They should woo you. as much, if not more than you woo them. top talent is always marketable.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: every time I've had that red flag, it's never undone itself.
Jennifer Brick: absolutely. I've been in a situation where the people doing the hiring and participating in hiring knew they were selling a different, expectation that what was going to happen.
I have confronted people of saying like, why did you say that that wasn't really true? And they're like, well, because no one would wanna work here if they really knew. one thing you mentioned making an exit and plotting that exit quickly.
And this is something that a lot of people terrifies them, and I can't tell you how many people that I've spoken to that have had that bait switch happen to them. And they end up like, well, I need to stay for at least 18 months, so I just need to put up with this for another 16 months. nothing good is going to come from this.
Your resume is not [00:14:00] going to be like, flawed forever if you don't stay in a job where it's set criteria of time. Will it bother some recruiters or companies potentially? Sure. But those are not gonna be your companies cuz I think that good leaders and good companies know that when you're in the right spot and you have the ability to identify that and do something about that, that's a great skill to have because that means that you're proactive, that you're not going to settle and you're going to bring that same energy into that company.
Not that you're gonna jump quick, ship quickly, but when you see a problem, when you see an issue, you are going to be a proactive, problem solver. that's a huge asset as a candidate.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: I do to. I think people have asked me that and I mentor people they said I only stayed there, six weeks or two months.
It was getting progressively worse.
Jennifer Brick: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: You don't have to put that on a resume.
You don't.
Jennifer Brick: you cannot prioritize your resume over your mental health because the cost of your resume is going to be much less than being in an awful, toxic environment for 18 months. [00:15:00] Two years, five years, whatever number you think is in your head that it's acceptable before you leave. You have to prioritize yourself in that situation cuz the only thing that's going to happen when you remain, not only will you experience, stress, trauma, unnecessary drama that none of us need in our lives. There's also a risk that you're going to experience skill atrophy because maybe you're not, you're going to be under leveraged. you might be so over leveraged that you end up completely burning out and then not having a chance but to take a career break, which is a situation that I have worked with many people that have ended up forced into career breaks they didn't plan for because things got so bad. but also over the, the course of those 18 months What opportunities are you missing opportunities to be in a great company.
there's so much cost to staying. That making the decision to leave, there's so much upside on the other side of that decision.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: None of us are guaranteed tomorrow, so definitely put yourself first [00:16:00] today.
Jennifer Brick: Yeah.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: With that, our time has totally flown by.
Jennifer Brick: If you're interested in, attending a training hiring me to speak or getting links to all my socials, they're on my website, www.capdecasolutions.com.
if you wanna hear more of my rantings, go to YouTube search Jennifer Brick and I'm gonna pop right up.
Dr. Rebecca Wynn: Great. Well Jennifer, thank you so much for being on the show today.
Jennifer Brick: Thank you for having me.