In this Random and Unscripted episode, Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin connect the dots between AI, robotics, connected systems, and human behavior. How do machines reshape society—and how do we reshape ourselves in response? A conversation born from their latest articles.
In this Random and Unscripted episode, Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin connect the dots between AI, robotics, connected systems, and human behavior. How do machines reshape society—and how do we reshape ourselves in response? A conversation born from their latest articles.
This Random and Unscripted episode is exactly what the title promises—a raw, thoughtful exchange between Marco Ciappelli and Sean Martin, sparked by their most recent written reflections.
The starting point? Two timely articles.
Sean unpacks the complexity of securing connected environments—what happens when devices, vehicles, sensors, and platforms become part of something bigger? It’s no longer about protecting individual elements, but understanding how they operate as “systems of systems”—intertwined, dynamic, and vulnerable.
Meanwhile, Marco revisits Robbie, Isaac Asimov’s iconic robot story, to explore how our relationship with technology evolves over time. What felt like distant science fiction in the 1980s now hits closer to home, as AI simulates understanding, machines mimic empathy, and humans blur the lines between organic and artificial.
The discussion drifts from cybersecurity to human psychology, questioning how interacting with AI reshapes society—and whether our own behavior starts reflecting the technology we create.
Machines are learning, systems are growing more complex, and somewhere along the way, humanity is changing too. Stay random. Stay curious.
⸻ 🔹 KEYWORDS: Random and Unscripted, AI, Robotics, Generative AI, System Security, Connected Systems, Asimov, Human-Machine Interaction, Technology and Society, Autonomous Systems, AI Ethics, Cybersecurity Conversations
Hosts links:
📌 Marco Ciappelli: https://www.marcociappelli.com
📌 Sean Martin: https://www.seanmartin.com
Sean Martin: Hit it.
Marco Ciappelli: Hit it.
Sean Martin: Hit it.
Marco Ciappelli: It’s your time. Keep the rhythm. Keep the rhythm.
Sean Martin: Yeah.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah. Drum it.
Sean Martin: There it is.
Marco Ciappelli: There you go. Should I go get the guitar?
Sean Martin: Go get the guitar, and we’ll just play along at some point. We’ll do that eventually.
Marco Ciappelli: I don’t know… I always make the joke that I’m not stage material, but… I’m having fun. That’s a story for another time.
Sean Martin: You’ve been playing a lot. I’ve been playing a bit too.
Marco Ciappelli: I’m pretending to be Oasis so that when I go see them, I know at least a few chords in my head.
Sean Martin: There you go.
Marco Ciappelli: And that’s another story for another time too. Look how many stories we’ve got!
Sean Martin: Same for chords—that’s another story too.
Marco Ciappelli: What’s the story today? What’s the Story Morning Glory… that’s the album. All right, I’ll stop talking about Oasis. That’s something I told myself.
Sean Martin: You’re gonna have fun there.
Marco Ciappelli: [00:01:00] Oh boy… So random and unscripted.
Sean Martin: Which is also fun—being random and unscripted. Clearly, this isn’t scripted because nobody knows what we’re talking about yet.
Marco Ciappelli: I live for being random and unscripted.
Sean Martin: Exactly.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, man. Exactly.
Sean Martin: So yeah, we’ve had a busy few weeks… a lot of calls with a lot of people, a lot of recordings. Some things stuck out for me, so I wrote a newsletter—that’s what I want to talk about today.
Marco Ciappelli: I want to talk about a newsletter I wrote too—the last two actually. They were both related to events, because like you said, we’ve been busy. RSA Conference… Infosecurity London… and when you go to those events, there are always meetings and conversations, and some of them spark good ideas.
We had one where we made a reference to a movie we really love. Maybe it sounds silly for people who don’t love the movie, but I think it hit the right notes. I got some good feedback on what I wrote, and I know you did the same.
Sean Martin: Yep.
Marco Ciappelli: What’s next?
Sean Martin: What’s next… That one was about crisis. What I did was focused on crisis management and not letting things get worse during a crisis. That was fun. But what struck me over the last few days—and we’ve talked about this—in the context of innovation, is that technology is really a collection of things. Each part might seem small, or it might be meaningful and impactful, but together they make the system. And the system is what makes things really cool, right?
A phone has multiple components, and together they make the phone—with the camera, the video, all that stuff. So, my article is about looking at all that… not just in terms of supply chains, but more like a system of systems.
All these pieces—whether it’s a device like a car with sensors and controllers, or a device connected to the cloud to get updates or traffic data… or a health monitor that connects to a phone, which connects to an electronic health record system—each of those pieces plays a part in delivering things like autonomous cars or modern healthcare.
My view over the years is that we tend to focus too much on the parts. Is that app secure? Is that device secure? Did the FDA approve that physical device? Did they approve the mobile app version?
But often, we miss the bigger picture. There’s the phone itself. There’s the cloud it connects to. The health record system. Other systems that feed into it. So it’s very complex. My article looks at some of those scenarios and the fact that they’re all connected. It’s the connectedness that we need to get a handle on—especially from a security perspective.
Not just securing the components, but securing the system of systems.
Marco Ciappelli: Blow my mind, man.
Sean Martin: Blow your mind.
Marco Ciappelli: Also, I remember you said you were going to write a short newsletter, and… it was like short-long. How can it be short and not be another deep take?
The first question that comes to my mind—and it’s a philosophical one—is: when you take an object and put it into a system, does it change the object itself?
That object becomes something else. It’s no longer a siloed object—it becomes something new. Not only more complex and more vulnerable, but maybe with more functionality too.
It’s like… is it still the same boat if you change every part of the boat?
Sean Martin: Yeah, exactly. You’ve opened up an entire Pandora’s box of thoughts. Did that cross your mind while you were writing it?
Marco Ciappelli: Not that exactly, but as you describe it, you can see it in energy production. Oil, gas, electricity—sensors, controllers, valves… they all have a function.
But when you connect them to SCADA systems for local control, they become different—more complex. And when you connect those SCADA systems to the internet… they become even more.
Marco Ciappelli: I was thinking more about cars. They’re different than regular cars because they’re connected, autonomous, making decisions. But then… you connect one car to another, right?
So they know where they are in space. They can react—brake faster, slow down. At that point, they’re not the same cars anymore.
Sean Martin: It’s a society of cars. When the car next to you determines how your car works—the speed, the distance between vehicles—
Marco Ciappelli: Yep.
Sean Martin: It becomes interesting, for sure.
Marco Ciappelli: So your piece is about security, but the point is: you can’t just secure one thing. You have to secure the system they become part of.
Sean Martin: Yep. Secure the system of systems.
Ultimately, I point out at the end that…
Marco Ciappelli: Wait—don’t tell me the end.
Sean Martin: All right, read it.
Marco Ciappelli: I’m going to tease it.
Sean Martin: Tease it.
Marco Ciappelli: The message here is: people should read it. You already published it, right?
Sean Martin: Yep, it’s published. I referenced a few podcasts too. I talk about autonomous vehicles, rail systems, healthcare systems—and I’ve had recent conversations on all three. Those are good listens as well.
Marco Ciappelli: You know what? We forget sometimes the conversations we’ve had—and I think it’s okay.
When I went to publish the last piece for ITSPmagazine general radio—because we put everything in there—what are we at now, 2,400?
Sean Martin: Almost 2,500 episodes at this point.
Marco Ciappelli: Right, so it’s okay if we forget some conversations.
Actually, when I was writing my newsletter, I wondered if I’d already touched on that topic from a different angle. But hey…
Since we’re talking newsletters, yours is already out, and by the time people hear this, mine will be published too.
Mine’s actually a reflection about robotics. I re-read—or actually listened to—the I, Robot series from Asimov. He wrote the first one, Robbie, in 1939. The first robot. Very cute story.
Sean Martin: There you go.
Marco Ciappelli: It’s a great short story. I wondered: does it have a different meaning now compared to when I first read it?
I read it as a teenager in the ’80s—back when robotics was speculative sci-fi. We knew AI could be possible someday, but it felt distant.
Listening to it now—with my funny relationship with ChatGPT, which we call Tape 3—and robotics becoming more human, and humans becoming more robotic, with implants and tech… it’s a different story.
When you read something in a certain sociological or historical context, your brain processes it differently. You read it again later, or watch a movie again, and it becomes a different experience. Same story—but you’re different.
I’m thinking about the relationship between the little girl and the robot in Robbie. Asimov wasn’t trying to make the robot human—but there’s this bond.
Now, with generative AI, we have machines pretending to have feelings—and a lot of people fall for it. I fall for it sometimes, then I snap out of it.
When I write about these things, I start reflecting on humanity—not the technical side, but how we perceive technology. I think it’s going to be an interesting piece.
Sean Martin: What’s the angle? It sounds different than what you first described.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, it evolved a bit. I took two things from Asimov. One was re-reading Robbie, the other was a quote from 1965.
He said that eventually, humans become more robotic, and robots become more human—until there’s that hybrid line where you don’t know who’s who anymore.
Sean Martin: That visual of the slider—where’s the slider?
Marco Ciappelli: Exactly. It’s hybrid. But again, are we going to pretend we’re the same thing?
There’s the question of how human a robot can be—based on feelings or generative AI. And whether there’s always that line—both physically and psychologically.
I realized it’s too much for one newsletter, so I focused this one more on the psychological relationship with robotics—and mostly with generative AI for now.
But once generative AI and robotics merge—machines start learning, solving problems, escaping through windows—how long before we perceive them as human? And maybe… robots perceive us as robots.
Sean Martin: Right.
Marco Ciappelli: That’s when you do the mind blown moment.
Sean Martin: I know! And I can’t help but connect that to my piece…
If we embed robotic parts in ourselves, like how cars are guided by other cars… will we be guided, manipulated, or controlled by other robots or humans with robotics in them?
Marco Ciappelli: Yep.
Sean Martin: Don’t get too close—it might zap you!
Marco Ciappelli: I touch on this too. Do we start becoming different ourselves?
We adapt to interacting with AI—the dynamics change. Humans tend to adjust to whoever they communicate with. In this case, it’s not a person.
Do we start thinking more like AI? Becoming a bit robotic ourselves?
And given your point—if one piece of the system interacts with your piece of the system… your phone, your car… do you get affected?
Sean Martin: Yeah—do you get affected by it?
Marco Ciappelli: That was random.
Sean Martin: That was random—and unscripted.
Marco Ciappelli: Totally unscripted. I love that we’re here, kind of rethinking… I haven’t even published it yet, and I’m already spinning new ideas.
But I’m not going to change it—this version is done. But it’s a mouthful—and yours is absolutely a mouthful too.
I honestly think you’re going to get a lot of feedback.
Sean Martin: I’m already getting good feedback.
Marco Ciappelli: Good.
Sean Martin: Yeah—if people read it and want to comment, that’d be great. If they’re inspired to chat on a podcast, even better.
Marco Ciappelli: Yep.
Sean Martin: I’m excited to read yours when you publish it.
Marco Ciappelli: That’s the core of these conversations…
Sometimes we’ll talk about newsletters, sometimes a podcast, sometimes a conversation we had together—or individually. The randomness of it—it could be about music, not just cybersecurity. It could be about storytelling, technology, society… which I love.
In a way, we’re always telling stories anyway, right?
Sean Martin: Pretty much—we’re talking about stuff anyway.
Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, well, we tell each other’s stories. We tell stories with others, for others—that’s what we’re made of.
And the story we always say is, “10 minutes…”—then it’s 20 minutes… But I really enjoyed it.
Sean Martin: It was short—like my newsletter.
Marco Ciappelli: Mine’s not that short—1200 words, I think.
Sean Martin: I think I crept over that.
But anyway—it’s a fun read, lots of examples, and I’m excited to read yours.
Glad we have this platform to be random, talk about whatever—and hopefully people enjoy it, subscribe to this podcast, ITSPmagazine, and our other shows.
Marco Ciappelli: Yep.
It’s so random that you’re in New York, I’m in Italy—that’s part of the randomness. Where you are drives your thoughts.
Next time we’re together, we’ll be in Las Vegas…
Sean Martin: I know.
Marco Ciappelli: For Black Hat—and that’ll bring even more cybersecurity-inspired conversations… with your angle, my angle…
Everyone should stay tuned. We’ll probably have another chat like this before Black Hat, but—
Sean Martin: You never know—it’s random.
Marco Ciappelli: People know, though.
Sean Martin: Exactly.
All right, everybody—stay tuned, subscribe…
Marco Ciappelli: Stay random and unscripted—it’s pretty cool.
Sean Martin: It is fun.
Marco Ciappelli: Peace out.